More finds from Egypt (Where else?)

[Anchorman]

Funny you should say that....
In his book "The city of Akhenaten and Nefertiti", Kemp shows how, with the help of a mini JCB, he found the cemetery of the workers who built the city -and there's a great pic of this in the book to boot!

[Anchorman]

........And there's more.
Remains of a temple complex discovered - dating to Ramesses II's time, from Abusir, near Memphis (Just south of Cairo)
http://luxortimesmagazine.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/czech-archaeologists-discover-ramses-ii.html?m=1#!/2017/10/czech-archaeologists-discover-ramses-ii.html

[Anchorman]

This looks interesting - but how the heck they're going to access it beats me.
http://www.nature.com/news/cosmic-ray-particles-reveal-secret-chamber-in-egypt-s-great-pyramid-1.22939


 And here's a youtube link to images of the scanning project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB-MOGw0RMo&feature=youtu.be

[SusanDoris]

Yes, this latest piece of news about the large space above the King's chamber is most interesting, isn't it? On the GH forum in the 'Mysteries' section there is quite a lively discussion.

[Anchorman]

Yes, this latest piece of news about the large space above the King's chamber is most interesting, isn't it? On the GH forum in the 'Mysteries' section there is quite a lively discussion.

Hi, Susan;
You can bet the Egyptology sites are in overdrive at the moment - and some of the more - er - speculative ones as well!
If you want my opinion, for what it's worth, I think this will be another 'relieving chamber' designed to take the stress from the building blocks above it. I very much doubt if there is any material there - though I hope I'm wrong.
In my wildest dreams, I suppose I could hope for images or a statue of Khufu - of all the Old Kingdom monarchs, he is the one with the fewest statues to his name. We only have one - a three inch high ivory statuette, which in all probability was carved much later than his time.
If you're interested, there's a few intelligent articles by French Egyptologist Jean-Pierre Houdin on the following site - which is also well respected for in-depth articles on mainly Old Kingdom stuff.

http://emhotep.net/

[SusanDoris]

anchorman

Thank you for reply. I will look up Houdinlater. Even if it is another relieving chamber, it will still be a new discovery, I suppose!

[Anchorman]

And another....
This time atemple in the Delta - rare enough; this one could be significant signalling a major settlement....
http://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4/32821/A-temple-for-Isis-dating-back-to-Ancient-Egypt-era

[trippymonkey]

What's this 'relieving chamber' full of ?? Water??

[Anchorman]

What's this 'relieving chamber' full of ?? Water??

   


Well, as one o the gangs which built the thing called themselves"Khufu's drunkards" (as scrawled in a graffito in another such cahmber), who knows...:

[Walter]

   

 it
Well, as one o the gangs which built the thing called themselves"Khufu's drunkards" (as scrawled in a graffito in another such cahmber), who knows...:

hi Anchorman

I'd be grateful if you would watch this video and give me your thoughts on it

https://youtu.be/puXsFyainQU


thanks

[Anchorman]

hi Anchorman

I'd be grateful if you would watch this video and give me your thoughts on it

https://youtu.be/puXsFyainQU


thanks

       




I've had a quick look, Walter.
The Old Kingdom isn't my speciality - more the Amarna Period and Third Intermediate Period/late period.
However, I do know that there is absolutely no doubt that the Giza pyramids were constructed for the kings who were interred in them - and that the construction technology is fairly well known, as are the burials of those who constructed them, which show the strains, wear and tear expected in their construction.
We even have the docks where the stones were landed from Tura - and evidence from Tura - namely half quarried stones with scrawled inscriptions left because they were surplus to requirements.
Besides, the pyramids did not appear from nowhere; they evolved from the 'mastaba' tombs of the Second dynasty, through the Step Pyramid of Njeterkhet Djoser in the third (and partially completed step pyramids of his three successors) To Sneferu's attempts to cover his step pyramid and turn it into a 'true' pyramid - which failed, so he built two more until the third - the first 'true' pyramid, met with his approval.
His son was Khufu, builder of the Great pyramid at Giza.
The failed step pyramids, and Sneferu's 'bent' second pyramid, give insights into the evolving construction.
As for drilling? Take a look at these statues of Khufu's son, Khafre - carved using copper chisels from hard granite - and you'll see that the limestone and sandstone from which the pyramids were constructed were 'easier' to shape by comparison.
http://www.bridgemanimages.com/fr/asset/68328/egyptian-4th-dynasty-c-2613-2498-bc/statue-of-khafre-2520-2494-bc-enthroned-from-the-valley-temple-of-the-pyramid-of-khafre-at-giza-old-kingdom-c-2540-2505-bc-diorite-see-also-68319
Hope that helps.

[Walter]

er, not really I'm more interested in the ''lost technology' as demonstrated in the vid . rather than who they were built for ,which to me, is far more important . but you don't know?
sorry i've just remembered , you are hard of sight  please excuse me .

[Anchorman]

er, not really I'm more interested in the ''lost technology' as demonstrated in the vid . rather than who they were built for ,which to me, is far more important . but you don't know?
sorry i've just remembered , you are hard of sight  please excuse me .

 





Nah.
I can magnify my (extra large) screen up to x120, so I can watch a youtube video.
Thing is, though, there are no 'lost technologies' as far as the Old Kingdom pyramids are concerned.
The self-same 'drill holes' can be seen in the earliest door lintels dating back 150 years before Khufu's time.
There are umpteen spurious claims on dbious sites - from Graham Hancock to Erik von Danekin (not forgetting David Icke) trying to find a myster where there is no mystery to find.
The sheer, incredible truth is that these monuments were plannded using sticks and cords, plumb lines and set squares, built using copper chisels, sand, grindsones and muscle power, by ordinary men with extraordinary minds.

[Walter]

 





Nah.
I can magnify my (extra large) screen up to x120, so I can watch a youtube video.
Thing is, though, there are no 'lost technologies' as far as the Old Kingdom pyramids are concerned.
The self-same 'drill holes' can be seen in the earliest door lintels dating back 150 years before Khufu's time.
There are umpteen spurious claims on dbious sites - from Graham Hancock to Erik von Danekin (not forgetting David Icke) trying to find a myster where there is no mystery to find.
The sheer, incredible truth is that these monuments were plannded using sticks and cords, plumb lines and set squares, built using copper chisels, sand, grindsones and muscle power, by ordinary men with extraordinary minds.

so are you saying the video is fake and the stone cutting is modern?

[Anchorman]

No, what I'm saying is that we can easily trace the evolution of building in stone back to the second dynasty mastabas.
The holes have been noted, as I pointed out, in door lintels which predate the pyramids, the same holes being noted down through the millenia in door lintels and footings in temple construction throughout Egypt - right into the Roman period.
There is np 'lost technology' as far as reputable experts on the Old Kingdom such as Romer, Kitchen, Houdin, etc, are concerned.

Nor are there any mysteries involving the carving, transporting and moving the blocks - especially since the discovery of the world's oldest papyrus which was written by a 'fang leader' on the construction of Khufu's pyramid.

 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping-mining-farming-economy-pyramids-180956619/

[Walter]

No, what I'm saying is that we can easily trace the evolution of building in stone back to the second dynasty mastabas.
The holes have been noted, as I pointed out, in door lintels which predate the pyramids, the same holes being noted down through the millenia in door lintels and footings in temple construction throughout Egypt - right into the Roman period.
There is np 'lost technology' as far as reputable experts on the Old Kingdom such as Romer, Kitchen, Houdin, etc, are concerned.

Nor are there any mysteries involving the carving, transporting and moving the blocks - especially since the discovery of the world's oldest papyrus which was written by a 'fang leader' on the construction of Khufu's pyramid.

 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping-mining-farming-economy-pyramids-180956619/

no, that's not helping me.

I'm interested in how the stone was drilled and cut so precisely . If you don't know I would rather you say so , with all due respect

I have no interest what so ever in who  ordered , or what dynasty or who they were constructed for . I'm only interested in their technology and tools because that is far more important to human endeavour than the fancy rulers and their families

or perhaps this aspect doesnt interest you ?

cheers
Walter

[Maeght]

There are various possible techniques for drilling holes and the like using copper tools with the addition of sand to do the work. I think it is true to say that we don't know exactly what techniques were used but that there is no reason to think that there was some hi tech method now lost as the results seen can be produced using technology available to the pyramid builders.

[Anchorman]

Exactly.
That's why I pointed out the evolution of building techniques over the centuries, Maeght.
We don't know exactly which method was used, but we do know the three or four alternative methods. Time and the action of sand had erased traces of the copper which was left by the chisels, I suppose.
Claims of ancient technology, alien technology, lost technology, secret meanings of the measurements of the Giza pyramids, not to mention Hancock's dating the Sphinx to before 10,000 BC, can be lumped into a term coined by the 'father of Egyptology', W.M. Flinders Petrie, when he was approached by one such 'theorist'.
He called them 'pyramidiots' - and the term stuck.
They were, and are, incredible constructions - dubbed 'resurrection machines' by modern Egyptologists.
Don't bother sticking a tomato under a pyramid to see if it will germinate - the 'resurrection' was supposed to unite the king with the solar deities.

[Maeght]

Exactly.
That's why I pointed out the evolution of building techniques over the centuries, Maeght.
We don't know exactly which method was used, but we do know the three or four alternative methods. Time and the action of sand had erased traces of the copper which was left by the chisels, I suppose.
Claims of ancient technology, alien technology, lost technology, secret meanings of the measurements of the Giza pyramids, not to mention Hancock's dating the Sphinx to before 10,000 BC, can be lumped into a term coined by the 'father of Egyptology', W.M. Flinders Petrie, when he was approached by one such 'theorist'.
He called them 'pyramidiots' - and the term stuck.
They were, and are, incredible constructions - dubbed 'resurrection machines' by modern Egyptologists.
Don't bother sticking a tomato under a pyramid to see if it will germinate - the 'resurrection' was supposed to unite the king with the solar deities.

There is it seems to me a modern belief that things can only get done using hi tech. I was talking to a lad about Victorian mining and canal building once and he said 'But how did they do it without technology,?' Manpower,time and basic tools can achieve a lot.

[Anchorman]

There is it seems to me a modern belief that things can only get done using hi tech. I was talking to a lad about Victorian mining and canal building once and he said 'But how did they do it without technology,?' Manpower,time and basic tools can achieve a lot.

It's been argued, convincingly, that, just as the Industrial revolurion kick started what has become modern society, so the 'pyramid age ' - the fourth dynasty - stabilised Egypt and firmly estaqblished the concept of a nation-state.
Whereas before the king had exercised authority frm Memphis bu force, since he needed vast amounts of agriculture, livestock, not to mention a standing force of at least seven thousand workers ro quarry, refine, transport and erect the stones, never mind bakers, brewers, tanners, etc, the state was reorganised, a civil service established to enforce taxation,etc...eseentially, the system survived a further three millenia, despite interuption due to internal or external forces.
And since Egypt became the model for nation building in the Levant, and eventually, southern Europe, the pyramid age may well have started the rise of modern state development.

[Walter]

Exactly.
That's why I pointed out the evolution of building techniques over the centuries, Maeght.
We don't know exactly which method was used, but we do know the three or four alternative methods. Time and the action of sand had erased traces of the copper which was left by the chisels, I suppose.
Claims of ancient technology, alien technology, lost technology, secret meanings of the measurements of the Giza pyramids, not to mention Hancock's dating the Sphinx to before 10,000 BC, can be lumped into a term coined by the 'father of Egyptology', W.M. Flinders Petrie, when he was approached by one such 'theorist'.
He called them 'pyramidiots' - and the term stuck.
They were, and are, incredible constructions - dubbed 'resurrection machines' by modern Egyptologists.
Don't bother sticking a tomato under a pyramid to see if it will germinate - the 'resurrection' was supposed to unite the king with the solar deities.

well , thanks for your replies , however it is obvious we are interested in totally different aspects of this subject .

I'm only concerned by the engineering , tooling, mathematicians  and cutting methods used which is obviously far more important than the other stuff

cheers

Walter
 

[Anchorman]

Earlier in this thread,
walter,
i posted a link to the Em Hotep site, which includes extensive articles by Jean-Pierre Houdin, himself a highly qualified at
rchetect and draughtsman who turned to Egyptology, and has since used his expertise to research the construction techniques of the Giza pyramids. Both he and Lehrer , as well as Romer, are experts in the field of dyn IV monumental constuctions, having excavated in the area as well as at Sakkara, Abusir and Dahshur, on earlier and indeed later pyramids.
You might try the Em Hotep site for a fuller evaluation of the techniques and indeed technology used in the construction of the Giza pyramids.
 http://emhotep.net/

[Walter]

Earlier in this thread,
walter,
i posted a link to the Em Hotep site, which includes extensive articles by Jean-Pierre Houdin, himself a highly qualified at
rchetect and draughtsman who turned to Egyptology, and has since used his expertise to research the construction techniques of the Giza pyramids. Both he and Lehrer , as well as Romer, are experts in the field of dyn IV monumental constuctions, having excavated in the area as well as at Sakkara, Abusir and Dahshur, on earlier and indeed later pyramids.
You might try the Em Hotep site for a fuller evaluation of the techniques and indeed technology used in the construction of the Giza pyramids.
 http://emhotep.net/

yes I saw them and also just looked at the one you posted , they are not helpful.

unfortunately draughtsmen and architects are not generally engineers and tool makers

[Maeght]

yes I saw them and also just looked at the one you posted , they are not helpful.

unfortunately draughtsmen and architects are not generally engineers and tool makers

What questions do you have Walter?

[Walter]

What questions do you have Walter?

have you seen the vid I linked to , not sure if its genuine, but my questions relate to  what it refers to

drilling ,cutting ,shaping stone in such ways