Author Topic: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)  (Read 42401 times)

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #375 on: October 01, 2021, 09:37:09 PM »
       We're just getting started in the new season for excavation - already Salima Ikram has started finding interesting stuff in tombs supposedly cleared in the Valley of the Kings, and indications of some rather interesting finds dating to the hitherto obscure late sixteenth/early seventeenth dynasties, when Egypt was embattled and divided, are starting to come onto the radar.
Anyway, one of the best newsletters giving updates is Osiris.net, a French outfit with English language sections, if anyone's interested.
https://osirisnet.net/news/n_09_21.htm?fr
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #376 on: October 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM »
 Ipetsut - better known today as 'Karnak', is vast, and still manages to surprise us. Here's a video of the recent find dating to perhaps Egypt's greatest warrior king, Thutmose III - and from what I'm hearing, there maybe more to find, possibly even material from his predecessor and co-regent, Hatshepsut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjotzMsc9Qk
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #378 on: October 16, 2021, 10:38:27 AM »
      A new, significant discovery of over a hundred burials, many dating to pre dynastic times as early as ca. 3800 BC, others to the hyksos period around 1700 BC, has been announced.
https://egyptologie-news.fr/2021/10/15/photos-110-archaeological-tombs-discovered-in-kom-al-khaljan-area-near-daqahliya/?fbclid=IwAR01_02PRWyIjzGSEmFxflw5peboteBuLtBvdADeJ4A6r2R-dZOitJw-MSM
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #379 on: October 21, 2021, 09:24:28 AM »
 Ipetsut - better known as Karnak - has many secrets hidden in its' vast area.
Apart from earlier buildings used as filling for later structures, revealing their own inscriptions, statues and criosphinxes have turned up over the past few years...these three are the latest.
They are ram headed sphinxes - the ram was one of the animals sacred to Amun-Ra, to whom Karnak was dedicated.
We have a wonderful avenue of these sphinxes linking Karnak to the nearby Luxor temple dating from the Eighteenth dynasty - but these three appear to be much later - the wadjet cobra - or uraeus - is a symbol of kingship, and was not normally seen on deities' statues until the power of the kings started to wane in the third century BC.
https://www.livescience.com/ram-head-statues-luxor-avenue-of-sphinxes?fbclid=IwAR0KfwHZTHgHjF7CzIk3m-yCX4uPHxCpq-3MjZe
POp7B5Kxwpn4DXZG1tNI
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #380 on: October 21, 2021, 09:50:40 AM »
I love how our understanding of ancient Egypt is evolving.

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #381 on: October 21, 2021, 10:10:40 AM »
I love how our understanding of ancient Egypt is evolving.
   


Yep.
When confronted by a picture of one of the ram-headed sphinxes dedicated by the female king Hatshepsut, Freud declared that it was an idealised form of manhood envisaged by the lady to suppress her sexual conflict as a female king.....
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #382 on: November 23, 2021, 03:21:31 PM »
The female king Hatshepsut has always fascinated me; her rule, monuments and strength shown by her building achievements speak volumes.
Her funerary temple complex at Deir-el-Bahari,'Djeser-djeseru' is still probably the most breathtaking in Egypt, and I still remember spending time there when I was a student and studied in the field.
Now, yet more finds from this complex to add to our corpus of knowledge, which has only deepened since the identification of her mummy through DNA confirmation in the last few years:
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2021/11/new-discoveries-in-tomb-beneath-temple-of-hatshepsut/142071?fbclid=IwAR2f9f3DeBQH6VJHOMFtyj9CQ6lquovoZPx9mk5uftnO
qSYiuYzbw3G1Jsk
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #383 on: December 02, 2021, 01:59:57 PM »
Interesting find from Cyprus, showing the extent of trade in the Mediterranean in the late Bronze age.
The Egyptian vessels confirm something written on one of the 'Amarna letters' a series of clay tablets containing diplomatic correspondence from the time of Amenhotep III, Akhenaten, Neferneferuaten and Tutankhamun, which gives incredible insight into the relations between the major powers and their vassal states at that period.
https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2021/12/gold-jewellery-from-time-of-nefertiti.html?fbclid=IwAR1XUEXQyAZXOTwOkQQb_RSh_2CBzl0SNU6PS17802HG40hiVXQJ4OCZ6AU#.YaenggGgjfs
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

SusanDoris

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #384 on: December 02, 2021, 03:35:55 PM »
I love how our understanding of ancient Egypt is evolving.
Ah, yes - me too. It would be so fascinating to have the chance to visit those wonderful places again.
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #385 on: December 06, 2021, 02:25:20 PM »
 Right.
If you're cheesed off roasting someone's chestnuts over an open fire, and fancy getting your teeth into a mystery, here's a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTPN4hjnqdM
It's about the most controversial woman in Egypt, and I'm not talking about Cleopatra.
Nefertiti; queen, king, both, and mother - or stepmother - of Tutankhamun.
Who was she?
Where is she?
For my money, I think I know, having worried at this like a Chihuahua on a dinosaur bone for three decades, but, hey, you decide....
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #386 on: December 06, 2021, 07:25:15 PM »
 Silver tongued devil...
Well, for 'silver', read 'gold'.
There seems to have been a fashion in funerary art in the seventh and sixth centuries to coat the tongues of some mummies with gold - possibly trying to get in the good books with the deities in the judgement hall in Amduat, gold being the 'flesh of the gods'.
The practice wasn't widespread, and good finds are rare...but there's an intact sarcophagus in a plundered tomb; a find recently announced to the world:
https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/443817.aspx?fbclid=IwAR1aCz3eouAk45iyWQU_WRXOtc4LOu8_OloSSXXzCfHdIWsLc1Lp2LHhQjM
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #387 on: December 07, 2021, 04:27:43 PM »
     A cursory look at Egypt through Greek or Roman eyes would have you believe that the main female deity was Iset (')('Isis')
That was never the case; from prehistoric till Ptolemaic times, the main female deity was Hathor and her alter ego, Sekhmet.
Polish excavators have found a massive hoard of votive offerings in Ipestsut (Luxor).
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/12/hundreds-offerings-egyptian-fertility-goddess-uncovered-luxor?fbclid=IwAR3ld6EfDvU0-LeuUOokek69RgGKeUvHP19wjKscQdPnJDrI7hmzSdkiC9E
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #388 on: December 27, 2021, 09:49:24 AM »
  Years ago, Egyptology comprised shovels, knowledge of hieroglyphs, a fair overview of Egyptian history and a lot of luck. People such as Howard Carter and Arthur Weigall, not to mention Harry Burton and Elliot Smith dragged the discipline into the twentieth century. Now botanists, metallurgists, physicists, biologists and the like are either on hand or close by, every dig. Here's a fascinating medical overview of a mummy we've had for well over a century, that of the Dyn XVII king Sequenenre Tao II, found in a dreadfully mutilated state, and now dissected (metaphorically) to reveal its' secrets. Sequenenre ruled during a particularly murky period of turmoil and disunity, a period in which I've long been very interested. I know this dates from February this year, but it's still interesting. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.637527/full
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

SusanDoris

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #389 on: December 27, 2021, 02:56:17 PM »
  Years ago, Egyptology comprised shovels, knowledge of hieroglyphs, a fair overview of Egyptian history and a lot of luck. People such as Howard Carter and Arthur Weigall, not to mention Harry Burton and Elliot Smith dragged the discipline into the twentieth century. Now botanists, metallurgists, physicists, biologists and the like are either on hand or close by, every dig. Here's a fascinating medical overview of a mummy we've had for well over a century, that of the Dyn XVII king Sequenenre Tao II, found in a dreadfully mutilated state, and now dissected (metaphorically) to reveal its' secrets. Sequenenre ruled during a particularly murky period of turmoil and disunity, a period in which I've long been very interested. I know this dates from February this year, but it's still interesting. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.637527/full
I have not listened rightthrough to the end, but yes, very interesting.

On my computer, I have an audio copy of a book entitled, 'Speech: how language made us human' by Simon Prentiss, who was Author of the Month in September on the Graham Hancock forum. I am only on Chapter 2 at the moment, but it is most interesting and of course refers a lot to Egyptian hieiroglyphs.
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #390 on: December 27, 2021, 03:57:48 PM »
I have not listened rightthrough to the end, but yes, very interesting.

On my computer, I have an audio copy of a book entitled, 'Speech: how language made us human' by Simon Prentiss, who was Author of the Month in September on the Graham Hancock forum. I am only on Chapter 2 at the moment, but it is most interesting and of course refers a lot to Egyptian hieiroglyphs.
     


The Graham Hancock Forum?
I think I'd better take a dram for medical reasons.
I trust there are a few folk there willing to argue with Hancock's, er, ideas?
Hancock, Icke, and, to a lesser extent, Rohl, are, shall we say, provocative?
Two of the three - Hancock and Rohl - have tried to remake Egyptian chronology to fit their theories; Rohl being armed with a Bible whilst doing so.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

SusanDoris

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #391 on: December 27, 2021, 04:24:09 PM »
     


The Graham Hancock Forum?
I think I'd better take a dram for medical reasons.
I trust there are a few folk there willing to argue with Hancock's, er, ideas?
Hancock, Icke, and, to a lesser extent, Rohl, are, shall we say, provocative?
Two of the three - Hancock and Rohl - have tried to remake Egyptian chronology to fit their theories; Rohl being armed with a Bible whilst doing so.
I can assure you I challenge all such stuff  if it comes up on the Inner Space board!! I cannot cope with the Mysteries board - it is too tiring!! And I can assure you that Simon Prentiss is not supportive of GH's or others' similar work - 'Speech- is 100% scientific - and that earlier in the year 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake was a thoroughly scientific book and was, in fact, the BBC Science programmes book of the year. My (older) son read me that over the phone and it was excellent.
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #392 on: December 27, 2021, 05:25:12 PM »

     Hancock is the sanest of that lot, and has been quite prepared to modify his ideas when new archaeological finds turn up which cannot fit into his original premiss. Not that he's adopted a completely different paradigm.
As I understand it, he's arguing that there's ample time to fit in another civilisation that has risen and fallen, in between the emergence of Cro Magnon man and the Sumerians and the Egyptians.
I'm NOT convinced of this, particularly because he seems to suggest that the Egyptians' technology seemed to appear fully formed out of nowhere. Whereas, it's obvious that they had to follow the usual learning curve.
His ideas about the conventional dating of the Sphinx being wrong seem plausible, though.
At least he's not a loony like Icke who thinks the controlling powers of the world are space lizards in human form. Nor does Hancock quite 'do a Von Daniken' with the Bible, like the other bloke you mentioned.
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #393 on: December 27, 2021, 07:07:15 PM »
     Hancock is the sanest of that lot, and has been quite prepared to modify his ideas when new archaeological finds turn up which cannot fit into his original premiss. Not that he's adopted a completely different paradigm.
As I understand it, he's arguing that there's ample time to fit in another civilisation that has risen and fallen, in between the emergence of Cro Magnon man and the Sumerians and the Egyptians.
I'm NOT convinced of this, particularly because he seems to suggest that the Egyptians' technology seemed to appear fully formed out of nowhere. Whereas, it's obvious that they had to follow the usual learning curve.
His ideas about the conventional dating of the Sphinx being wrong seem plausible, though.
At least he's not a loony like Icke who thinks the controlling powers of the world are space lizards in human form. Nor does Hancock quite 'do a Von Daniken' with the Bible, like the other bloke you mentioned.

     


Hancock seems obsessed with the Giza Sphinx...he claims it to be the 'original' from which all others  were modelled during the next three thousand years.
This is patent rubbish; we have a sphinx of Hetepheres I, mother of Khufu, dating to thirty years before Khafre modelled that outcrop of sandstone into sphinx form. There's also a rather damaged sphinx of Djedefre, Khufu's hier.  Going further back, there is a base which had to be made for a sphinx found in Saqqara, dating to Khasekhemy, last kimng of the second dynasty. Had this survived, it would have been thirty feet long.
When confronted with this evidence, Hancock stuck his fingers in his ears and ignored it...the same technique he usually uses when dealing with uncomfortable facts.
As for the Giza Sphinx, I'm with Jean Pierre Houdin, probably the foremost living expert on the Giza plateau; the Giza sphinx was simply a lump of rock which got in the way when Khafre constructed his causeway temple; instead of rerouting the temple alignment, he simply sculpted the sphinx, associating himself with the solar cult in the process.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

SusanDoris

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #394 on: December 28, 2021, 06:32:12 AM »
     Hancock is the sanest of that lot, and has been quite prepared to modify his ideas when new archaeological finds turn up which cannot fit into his original premiss. Not that he's adopted a completely different paradigm.
As I understand it, he's arguing that there's ample time to fit in another civilisation that has risen and fallen, in between the emergence of Cro Magnon man and the Sumerians and the Egyptians.
I'm NOT convinced of this, particularly because he seems to suggest that the Egyptians' technology seemed to appear fully formed out of nowhere. Whereas, it's obvious that they had to follow the usual learning curve.
His ideas about the conventional dating of the Sphinx being wrong seem plausible, though.
At least he's not a loony like Icke who thinks the controlling powers of the world are space lizards in human form. Nor does Hancock quite 'do a Von Daniken' with the Bible, like the other bloke you mentioned.
Thank you - interesting post. Yes, I agree a bout GH. I did not read his later books, but the first ones always had a paragraph at the end of each chapter stating clearly what in it was factual and what was speculation. And that is one of the reasons I have stayed interested in the site.

If he read the book 'Origins: how the Earth made us' by Lewis Dartnell, I think he would drop the idea of a civilisation that rose and disappeared along the way.
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #395 on: December 28, 2021, 12:07:46 PM »
     


Hancock seems obsessed with the Giza Sphinx...he claims it to be the 'original' from which all others  were modelled during the next three thousand years.
This is patent rubbish; we have a sphinx of Hetepheres I, mother of Khufu, dating to thirty years before Khafre modelled that outcrop of sandstone into sphinx form. There's also a rather damaged sphinx of Djedefre, Khufu's hier.  Going further back, there is a base which had to be made for a sphinx found in Saqqara, dating to Khasekhemy, last kimng of the second dynasty. Had this survived, it would have been thirty feet long.
When confronted with this evidence, Hancock stuck his fingers in his ears and ignored it...the same technique he usually uses when dealing with uncomfortable facts.
As for the Giza Sphinx, I'm with Jean Pierre Houdin, probably the foremost living expert on the Giza plateau; the Giza sphinx was simply a lump of rock which got in the way when Khafre constructed his causeway temple; instead of rerouting the temple alignment, he simply sculpted the sphinx, associating himself with the solar cult in the process.
Hi Anchorman
It's a very long time since I've given any thought to these matters. I understand that one of Hancock's arguments for the great antiquity of the Giza Sphinx is that grooves of wear on its surface must have been caused by water. What are your views on this?
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #396 on: December 28, 2021, 12:10:20 PM »
Thank you - interesting post. Yes, I agree a bout GH. I did not read his later books, but the first ones always had a paragraph at the end of each chapter stating clearly what in it was factual and what was speculation. And that is one of the reasons I have stayed interested in the site.

If he read the book 'Origins: how the Earth made us' by Lewis Dartnell, I think he would drop the idea of a civilisation that rose and disappeared along the way.
Thanks for the L Dartnell book reference, Susan.
I'll check it out.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #397 on: December 28, 2021, 12:34:45 PM »
Hi Anchorman
It's a very long time since I've given any thought to these matters. I understand that one of Hancock's arguments for the great antiquity of the Giza Sphinx is that grooves of wear on its surface must have been caused by water. What are your views on this?
   




     I think I'd defer to what I know of the evolving religion of Egypt, rather than geology, DU. though, in passing, the sandstone structures of the Dyn III king Djoser at Sakkara show similar weather damage - they are the subject of a major conservation project which is almost complete - and there is no suggestion that their dates are questioned (C14 dating of organic remains found under the Step Pyramid back the conventional dates plus or minus twenty years)
The solar cult of Re at Heliopolis was starting to be foremost at - the end of Dyn IIi and start of Dyn IV, rivaling the cult of the deity of kingship itself. The preponderance of -re endings in royal and noble names show this; it would reach its' zenith in the following dynasty.
Given the solar aspect of the sphinx associated with Sekhmet/Hathor, the creation of these monuments would show the thought process of the time. Sphinxes would be associated with the solar cult down through history, whether as Re-Horakhty, Horemakhet, or, with the New Kingdom, Amon-re.

"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #398 on: December 28, 2021, 06:08:56 PM »
CT scan of Amenhotep I.

This is exciting news; the first king buried in the Valley of the Kings has been CT scanned - at last.
Amenhotep I eventually ended up in the Deir el Bahari 'cache' tomb DB320, along with quite a few other royal refugees who were stored there after the state judiciously cleared their tombs - making sure the last vestiges of royal bling was removed first.
Most of these mummies have been examined in modern times, but the delicate nature of the cartonage face mask meant that Amenhotep I remained relatively untouched.
Incidentally, the face mask, like the other royal face masks we have from the royal necropolis at Tanis, bears only the Wadjet - or uraeus - cobra.
The only kingly face mask to bear both vulture and cobra is that covering Tutankhamun.
Since the vulture - Nekhbet - adorned female crowns, this adds to the hypothesis that the Tutankhamun mask was originally meant for the female king Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, and adapted for Tutankhamun's use.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-59808883
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #399 on: January 20, 2022, 06:55:45 PM »
      Interesting article about the latest excavations in the remains of the funerary complex of Nebmaatre Amenhotep III at Luxor. Amenhotep III has to be one of the greatest builders in Egypt, certainly one of the most important figures of Egypt's New Kingdom. His increasing obsession with solar deities and final self-apotheosis with the sun in the form of the Aten was the springboard for his son and successor, Neferkheperure Akhenaten, and the Amarna period. https://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2022/01/18/sphinx-and-sekhmet-statues-found-at-pharaoh-amenhotep-iiis-mortuary-temple/?fbclid=IwAR2Nmt-_QG8nwMKP8gdGzt7HY4d8LnoKDKMuFwGNivlx99t8z6rx597Eio0
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."