Christianity and Reincarnation

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Yes you said a working assumption that material is all there is. It's the ''all there is'' bit that you are trying to turdpolish into having no philosophical entailment...but it does...and you've been caught out.

No-one does that. Stop lying.

There is no mileage on shooting the messenger here or running after him onto every thread metaphorically shouting. That is not a good look IMHO.

You’re not being shot – you’re just being caught out in a lie you’ve ridden relentlessly into the ground.

I think were at the point where the behaviour of antitheists is anticordial and hilariously domineering. So guys I think I got better things to do.

As “this behaviour” is calling you out on your lie, there’s s simple solution: stop lying.

[Anchorman]

Anchorman, I am not asking Christians to give up their faith in Christ or abandon his teachings.  I am only saying that there is no final word on what exactly Jesus taught. The bible was compiled 300 years later with the vested interest of many others at that point of time. On the other hand, some Jews and early Christians and also certain gospels such as The Gospel of Thomas besides certain words in  the official bible itself, seem to indicate a belief in reincarnation (refer link in the OP). That idea is also more universal in its application than standard biblical ideas and has a stronger philosophical base not just in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc. but in Kabbala, gnosticism and Sufi teachings as well. So...maybe Christianity does have its secret teachings that go beyond standard faith based beliefs. I don't think the possibility can be dismissed outright, rather it needs to be investigated and studied more carefully. My point is to arrive at a common philosophical base for all people and to keep cultural and traditional influences to the minimum. Cheers. Sriram

- What the blood and stomach pills has the 'Gospel of Thomas' got to do with Christianiity? Oh, and by the way, you DO know we now have a fragment of the Fospel which dates to around 90AD -or earlier? http://www.livescience.com/49489-oldest-known-gospel-mummy-mask.html

[ippy]

Hi everyone,

It is said that about 25% of Christians today believe in reincarnation.

Origen, a early church father, is said to have believed in reincarnation and some passages in the bible itself are said to indicate reincarnation. Some texts like the Gospel of Thomas, recovered at the Nag Hammadi site, seem to refer to reincarnation. Kabbalists and some others in Judaism seem to believe in reincarnation. Some Christians who had NDE's have talked of people waiting for reincarnation in the after-life.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html

Is reincarnation the forgotten doctrine in Christianity?

Any views?

Sriram

While you're at it Sriram, how about believing in the tooth faiiry as well?

A blue elephant in a Savill Row suit?

ippy

[Sebastian Toe]

. So guys I think I got better things to do.

Indefinitely?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Indefinitely?

Look Seb you and I both believe in reincarnation since we reincarnate the same joke over and over again.

In fact...... I will make a joke and then you reincarnate it.

[Sriram]

HI everyone,

In fact you'll be surprised at the Sufi (esoteric Islam) teachings. Here is a link...

http://rose-sufi-crescent.blogspot.in/2007/02/islam-sufism-and-reincarnation.html

***********

Many Muslims mistakenly believe that after death the soul resides at the place where the body has been buried, awaiting the resurrection. What does the Qur'an teach?

The Archangel Gabriel in Surah 2: 28 revealed:

"How can you reject faith in God? Do you not recall that you were once without life, and Allah gave you life; then God will cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and finally to Allah will you return."

The above passage speaks clearly to the reality of reincarnation. Life and death are given to us as gifts from Allah. The cycle is continual. We are born, we die and then we are born again. Eventually we return to the Source.

************

The ancient Greeks also accepted reincarnation in the name of Metempsychosis. 

[Anchorman]

HI everyone,

In fact you'll be surprised at the Sufi (esoteric Islam) teachings. Here is a link...

http://rose-sufi-crescent.blogspot.in/2007/02/islam-sufism-and-reincarnation.html

***********

Many Muslims mistakenly believe that after death the soul resides at the place where the body has been buried, awaiting the resurrection. What does the Qur'an teach?

The Archangel Gabriel in Surah 2: 28 revealed:

"How can you reject faith in God? Do you not recall that you were once without life, and Allah gave you life; then God will cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and finally to Allah will you return."

The above passage speaks clearly to the reality of reincarnation. Life and death are given to us as gifts from Allah. The cycle is continual. We are born, we die and then we are born again. Eventually we return to the Source.

************

The ancient Greeks also accepted reincarnation in the name of Metempsychosis. 

-
-
What has this got to do with any Chrtstian doctrine of eternity (not that there's such a thing as any Christian doctrine of reincarnation).
Whatever Moslems believe is for the Moslem board.

[Robbie]

There's no such thing as a Moslem.  Try describing, to a Muslim, a Muslim as a Moslem & they will tell you. Same goes for 'Mohammedan' or 'Musselman'.
(This was pointed out, politely, to me and others by Muslims at work & since then I have been carefuld not to say 'Moslem', & politely corrected others if they have said it.  Muslims really don't like it & I believe we should address people how they like to be addressed.)

[Sriram]

-
-
What has this got to do with any Chrtstian doctrine of eternity (not that there's such a thing as any Christian doctrine of reincarnation).
Whatever Moslems believe is for the Moslem board.

Anchorman.......You are getting unnecessarily concerned about reincarnation being discussed on the Christian board! I am only pointing out that Judaism and Islam have esoteric branches that teach reincarnation. Ancient Greeks also believed in it. Even in Christianity we have seen gnostic Christians who taught reincarnation.

So...reincarnation is not as alien and irrelevant to Abrahamic religions, western philosophy and Christianity itself as you might like to believe.

[Robbie]

I can see no reason why it should not be discussed here, anything that broadens our knowledge and makes us think & look things up is welcome to me.

[Anchorman]

Anchorman.......You are getting unnecessarily concerned about reincarnation being discussed on the Christian board! I am only pointing out that Judaism and Islam have esoteric branches that teach reincarnation. Ancient Greeks also believed in it. Even in Christianity we have seen gnostic Christians who taught reincarnation.

So...reincarnation is not as alien and irrelevant to Abrahamic religions, western philosophy and Christianity itself as you might like to believe.

-
Gnostic Christians?
Oxymoron alert.

[Robbie]

Maybe Anchor but this is a discussion forum so all sorts of ideas are going to come up. I'd have thought you would have found it all interesting considering your Egyptology studies.

[Anchorman]

Maybe Anchor but this is a discussion forum so all sorts of ideas are going to come up. I'd have thought you would have found it all interesting considering your Egyptology studies.

-
Yep. But those studies led, in passing, to a cursory look at the Gnostic material (some of which was inDemotic, a variant of hieroglyphs which later morphed into Coptic) - and the mysticism blend of Hellenistic mystery thought and bits of Christianity show that interesting as third and fourth century Gnostic literature is, 'Christian' it isn't.

[Robbie]

So?

[Anchorman]

So?

So: If the literature isn't Christian in any accepted sense of the term, those who follow it aren't, either.

[Sriram]

-
Gnostic Christians?
Oxymoron alert.

Here is something about Gnostic Christians...in Q&A.

http://www.thepearl.org/What_is_Gnosticism.htm

and this...

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html


In any case....as Christians believe, if the soul/spirit is eternal and leaves the body after death....it must have existed before birth also.  So...what is the problem in reincarnation anyway?!   

[Anchorman]

Here is something about Gnostic Christians...in Q&A.

http://www.thepearl.org/What_is_Gnosticism.htm

and this...

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html


In any case....as Christians believe, if the soul/spirit is eternal and leaves the body after death....it must have existed before birth also.  So...what is the problem in reincarnation anyway?!   

Here is something about Gnostic Christians...in Q&A.

http://www.thepearl.org/What_is_Gnosticism.htm

and this...

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html


In any case....as Christians believe, if the soul/spirit is eternal and leaves the body after death....it must have existed before birth also.  So...what is the problem in reincarnation anyway?!   

-
I have no problem with reincarnation.
I happily reject it, alongside gnostic stuff, as totally incompatable with the Christian faith.
Simples.

[Sriram]

-
I have no problem with reincarnation.
I happily reject it, alongside gnostic stuff, as totally incompatable with the Christian faith.
Simples.

Ok...that's fine.  But how does your rejection change anything?!

[Anchorman]

Ok...that's fine.  But how does your rejection change anything?!

-
Not only my rejection, but that of every mainstream Christian denomination, theologian, cleric and scholar.

[Sriram]

A very interesting video that I think every Christian should watch....whether you agree with it or not..!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbIRvkIWkUM

This guy about covers it! 

[Dicky Underpants]

-
Yep. But those studies led, in passing, to a cursory look at the Gnostic material (some of which was inDemotic, a variant of hieroglyphs which later morphed into Coptic) - and the mysticism blend of Hellenistic mystery thought and bits of Christianity show that interesting as third and fourth century Gnostic literature is, 'Christian' it isn't.

I've no real axe to grind, but I'd like to know how you would differentiate between those Gnostics who specifically refer to their own version of Christ, and the Hermetic Gnostics, for instance, who don't. Christ certainly gets referred to a huge amount in the literature of the former: perhaps you'd prefer "Pseudo_Christian"? Then you'd no doubt apply such a term to Arians, Unitarians, Mandeans, Sea-of-Faith-'uns (in modern times) etc? And then we'd certainly be into the only genuine tartan territory here.

[Dicky Underpants]

- What the blood and stomach pills has the 'Gospel of Thomas' got to do with Christianiity?

Well, it does have a few verses highly reminiscent of traditional gospel texts, and it has been dated (equivocally) as early as any of them.

[Anchorman]

I've no real axe to grind, but I'd like to know how you would differentiate between those Gnostics who specifically refer to their own version of Christ, and the Hermetic Gnostics, for instance, who don't. Christ certainly gets referred to a huge amount in the literature of the former: perhaps you'd prefer "Pseudo_Christian"? Then you'd no doubt apply such a term to Arians, Unitarians, Mandeans, Sea-of-Faith-'uns (in modern times) etc? And then we'd certainly be into the only genuine tartan territory here.

-
Much of 'Christian' gnosticism developed in Alexandria, DU - and that place had been a melting pot of religious ideas since its' foundation, and the syncretism of Hellenic beliefs with native Egyptian religion in an attempt to codify the existing plethora of deitires (A bit like herding cats with a hamster).
Add the Greek philosophies into the mix, stir in some stoicism, and the pre-Christian 'gnostics' were well established.
As soon as Christian material began to emerge, the assimilation begun with the Egyptian religion simply continued apace. That's why the 'Christian' gnostics were able to find a comfortable acceptance in the already convoluted mess of Alexandrine thought.

[ippy]

HI everyone,

In fact you'll be surprised at the Sufi (esoteric Islam) teachings. Here is a link...

http://rose-sufi-crescent.blogspot.in/2007/02/islam-sufism-and-reincarnation.html

***********

Many Muslims mistakenly believe that after death the soul resides at the place where the body has been buried, awaiting the resurrection. What does the Qur'an teach?6

The Archangel Gabriel in Surah 2: 28 revealed:

"How can you reject faith in God? Do you not recall that you were once without life, and Allah gave you life; then God will cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and finally to Allah will you return."

The above passage speaks clearly to the reality of reincarnation. Life and death are given to us as gifts from Allah. The cycle is continual. We are born, we die and then we are born again. Eventually we return to the Source.

************

The ancient Greeks also accepted reincarnation in the name of Metempsychosis.

And there are also a lot of people that think Elvis is still alive Sriram?

ippy

[Robbie]

So: If the literature isn't Christian in any accepted sense of the term, those who follow it aren't, either.

Quite probably Anchorman but it isn't only Christians who post in the Christian topic, it's open to everyone so all sorts of ideas will come up.

(Oh I liked your oath,"Blood and stomach pills", It's great.)