Author Topic: Prehistoric Preachers  (Read 2931 times)

Nearly Sane

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Gordon

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 11:54:47 AM »
Me too.

It doesn't mention schools/school hours being used for these events, so hopefully the education system isn't involved.

I'd imagine those attending will be pre-existing creationist types since I can't imagine many other people would take such nonsense seriously - the dinosaur link, given the publicity poster, will no doubt appeal to kids who like dinosaur stuff but hopefully their parents will realise the not so subtle religious agenda behind the large models and free gifts for the kids.

Bubbles

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 04:10:32 PM »
IMO The only place this sort of thing belongs in a school, is to teach children about the various beliefs of others, so they can see that not everyone excepts the same things. But it would be older children, not little ones.

I'm all for giving children different sides of an argument, but in its place. ( which is to tell them some people believe this because/ not that it's facts)

There is something creepy and insidious about teaching it as facts and talking about corrupting people.

I'm all for diversity and different perspectives, but it has to be presented properly and this sounds like it isn't.

My children at a young age would have loved to believe men and dinosaurs lived at the same time, not because of religion but because of their imaginations and toys.

In some ways they could be abusing the imagination of children to further their own agenda.

I wouldn't have wanted my children to go when they were small, because they would have picked that up and been indoctrinated, because they had fertile imaginations and wouldn't have been aware of an agenda behind it. The idea of humans and dinosaurs would have appealed.


Somehow I think it's different than taking your small children to Sunday school because they want to go and want to know what it's about.  They still hear stories and beliefs which people dispute, however even the local Sunday school they didn't use terminology like " corrupted". 

It shows a mindset behind it I don't like very much.





« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 04:12:37 PM by Rose »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 04:20:04 PM »
Your point about abusing the imagination of children is very powerful, Rose.

Though given I am watching The Flintstones, that well known documentary, currently....

Rhiannon

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 06:00:13 PM »
This reminds me of teaching by theme, which is popular in primary schools now. In one term children are taught the Creation story as in the Bible for RE, make wall hangings for art on the same theme, and learn about plants growing in science. Unsurprisingly you then get a bunch of five year olds going home and telling their parents that God made the world and the sun for the plants to grow. And this is the secular state school curriculum.

And no, the curriculum didn't cover evolution or the Big Bang theory, although my daughter did pipe up at one point that she believed in that instead of the Bible version. No idea if the curriculum has changed now.

Jack Knave

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 07:05:29 PM »
I am proud to have been 'corrupted by the teaching of evolution'



I'm not so sure my two brains are one hell of headache!!!

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 08:05:55 AM »
 :o
Your point about abusing the imagination of children is very powerful, Rose.

Though given I am watching The Flintstones, that well known documentary, currently....

I'm pleased to see that an important documentary series has been mentioned. However, it must also be recognised that The Flintstones had a nasty corrupting effect on television programmes generally that was instrumental in undermining the moral righteousness of God-faring America ...

... it was the first mainstream prime-time TV programme to show a married couple together in a double bed.   :o
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Bubbles

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 09:02:30 AM »
:o
I'm pleased to see that an important documentary series has been mentioned. However, it must also be recognised that The Flintstones had a nasty corrupting effect on television programmes generally that was instrumental in undermining the moral righteousness of God-faring America ...

... it was the first mainstream prime-time TV programme to show a married couple together in a double bed.   :o

Mhmm!

And to show Wilma,  Betty and co with an incredibly short skirt  ;)

ippy

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 05:32:53 PM »
IMO The only place this sort of thing belongs in a school, is to teach children about the various beliefs of others, so they can see that not everyone excepts the same things. But it would be older children, not little ones.

I'm all for giving children different sides of an argument, but in its place. ( which is to tell them some people believe this because/ not that it's facts)

There is something creepy and insidious about teaching it as facts and talking about corrupting people.

I'm all for diversity and different perspectives, but it has to be presented properly and this sounds like it isn't.

My children at a young age would have loved to believe men and dinosaurs lived at the same time, not because of religion but because of their imaginations and toys.

In some ways they could be abusing the imagination of children to further their own agenda.

I wouldn't have wanted my children to go when they were small, because they would have picked that up and been indoctrinated, because they had fertile imaginations and wouldn't have been aware of an agenda behind it. The idea of humans and dinosaurs would have appealed.


Somehow I think it's different than taking your small children to Sunday school because they want to go and want to know what it's about.  They still hear stories and beliefs which people dispute, however even the local Sunday school they didn't use terminology like " corrupted". 

It shows a mindset behind it I don't like very much.

If there are any lessons in schools that are specifically set aside for teaching about religions, I think it 's affording far more status to these primitive beliefs than they are due.

Religions are without a doubt a part of human history and it would be wrong to try to write religions out, but the occasional mention where necessary in a history lesson would be about the right place for them.

ippy

Jack Knave

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 07:20:25 PM »
If there are any lessons in schools that are specifically set aside for teaching about religions, I think it 's affording far more status to these primitive beliefs than they are due.

Religions are without a doubt a part of human history and it would be wrong to try to write religions out, but the occasional mention where necessary in a history lesson would be about the right place for them.

ippy
Historically speaking religion is a major factor - not something you can mention where necessary because that would be almost all the time.

Sassy

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 06:55:45 AM »
I am proud to have been 'corrupted by the teaching of evolution'



http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/04/10/news/kids-creationist-dinosaur-roadshow-criticised-for-alternative-facts--991816/

You need more faith than Christians...
Do you really want to appear so weak?
No accounting for what people are proud about.  Personally, I would require proof not 'theories'.
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Sassy

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2017, 07:00:02 AM »
IMO The only place this sort of thing belongs in a school, is to teach children about the various beliefs of others, so they can see that not everyone excepts the same things. But it would be older children, not little ones.

I'm all for giving children different sides of an argument, but in its place. ( which is to tell them some people believe this because/ not that it's facts)

There is something creepy and insidious about teaching it as facts and talking about corrupting people.

I'm all for diversity and different perspectives, but it has to be presented properly and this sounds like it isn't.

My children at a young age would have loved to believe men and dinosaurs lived at the same time, not because of religion but because of their imaginations and toys.

In some ways they could be abusing the imagination of children to further their own agenda.

I wouldn't have wanted my children to go when they were small, because they would have picked that up and been indoctrinated, because they had fertile imaginations and wouldn't have been aware of an agenda behind it. The idea of humans and dinosaurs would have appealed.


Somehow I think it's different than taking your small children to Sunday school because they want to go and want to know what it's about.  They still hear stories and beliefs which people dispute, however even the local Sunday school they didn't use terminology like " corrupted". 

It shows a mindset behind it I don't like very much.

To be honest Rose,

I believe the theory of evolution is not hitting the spot any longer. Children are advancing and realising theories are not evidence.
Do you not find it strange that humans appear to have stopped evolving and at a time when we can virtually chart the existence and map the history of evolvement or rather none evolvement?

Children as they grow up no longer accept word of mouth or face value they want answers. Evolution cannot provide those answers any longer. Those in the know who question evolution are now using their own markers to prove the theories are not
fact.

I am interested to see how things will progress in the future.

Hope you are good.

Sassy. :)

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

torridon

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2017, 07:48:19 AM »
To be honest Rose,

I believe the theory of evolution is not hitting the spot any longer. Children are advancing and realising theories are not evidence.
Do you not find it strange that humans appear to have stopped evolving and at a time when we can virtually chart the existence and map the history of evolvement or rather none evolvement?

Children as they grow up no longer accept word of mouth or face value they want answers. Evolution cannot provide those answers any longer. Those in the know who question evolution are now using their own markers to prove the theories are not
fact.

I am interested to see how things will progress in the future.

Hope you are good.

Sassy. :)

All of which is about the diametric opposite of the truth.  Scientific theories are based on evidence and this is nowhere more true than in the case of evolutionary biology.  In string theory for instance, it is all about maths, whereas in evolutionary biology it is much more based on observation.  And although human evolution may have slowed now that we have universal health care it certainly has not stopped and there are some dozens of regions of the human genome currently under selection pressure, with Europeans and Asians currently evolving at a more rapid rate than African Americans, according to one recent study.

floo

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2017, 08:37:15 AM »
When I was 13 I asked the YEC Pastor of our ghastly Elim Pentecostal church where dinosaurs fitted in as they were much older than he believed the world to be . The cretin told me they were put there by god as a test of faith! My faith started to nosedive from then on!

Sassy

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 09:38:58 AM »
All of which is about the diametric opposite of the truth.  Scientific theories are based on evidence and this is nowhere more true than in the case of evolutionary biology.  In string theory for instance, it is all about maths, whereas in evolutionary biology it is much more based on observation.  And although human evolution may have slowed now that we have universal health care it certainly has not stopped and there are some dozens of regions of the human genome currently under selection pressure, with Europeans and Asians currently evolving at a more rapid rate than African Americans, according to one recent study.

Torridon, with respect, you only know what you have been told... be it in books or by other people.

Scientific theories are not based on direct evidence at all, in most cases. You know that and hope that no other person will question you on the matter.

Mankind has not evolved ANYWHERE in the last 2,000 years according to your scientist.
How come you have a different version of events?
Since we have been able to communicate and travel we know that man (if he ever evolved) stop doing so long time ago.
According to the scientists theories.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2017, 09:40:24 AM »
When I was 13 I asked the YEC Pastor of our ghastly Elim Pentecostal church where dinosaurs fitted in as they were much older than he believed the world to be . The cretin told me they were put there by god as a test of faith! My faith started to nosedive from then on!

What do you believe the Leviathan was?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Anchorman

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2017, 10:04:39 AM »
When I was 13 I asked the YEC Pastor of our ghastly Elim Pentecostal church where dinosaurs fitted in as they were much older than he believed the world to be . The cretin told me they were put there by god as a test of faith! My faith started to nosedive from then on!


-
Yep.
It is daft stuff like that which turn so many away from faith.
I've had similar stuff thrown at me in connection with my own discipline....including one numpty who said he had a divine revelation that the pyramids were actually modelled on the granaries that stored the corn on the cob - yes, corn on the cob - that Joseph gave out in the time of famine.........
Not only scripturaly, but historicaly, botanically and geographically wrong.
Four out of four wasn't bad, though.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 11:07:03 AM by Gordon »
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torridon

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2017, 10:07:14 AM »
Torridon, with respect, you only know what you have been told... be it in books or by other people.

That is largely true.  Open up an Encyclopedia Britannica.  How much of the knowledge therein did you discover personally ?  We are a knowledge sharing culture, and knowledge sharing stepped up a gear when we starting writing things down for posterity. Understanding this is key to understanding the growth of our species.

Scientific theories are not based on direct evidence at all, in most cases. You know that and hope that no other person will question you on the matter.

Pretty much all science comes down to observation and empiricism at some point. Even the most arcane depths of String Theory have in the end to explain observations.

Mankind has not evolved ANYWHERE in the last 2,000 years according to your scientist.
How come you have a different version of events?
Since we have been able to communicate and travel we know that man (if he ever evolved) stop doing so long time ago.
According to the scientists theories.

2000 years is pretty small timescales for evolutionary biology.  But you don't need lab techniques to see evidence of evolution in humans, just take a walk down the High Street; if you see a white man, that is evidence for evolution in modern humans, who are a black skinned African species.  If you find a person that can drink milk, that is evidence of evolution in modern humans.  There is no way that evolution can stop completely, that would be fantastically improbable.  Evolution is natural.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Prehistoric Preachers
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 10:53:34 PM »

Scientific theories are not based on direct evidence at all, in most cases. You know that and hope that no other person will question you on the matter.


I suspect the problem here is that you are not aware of what a scientist means by the word "theory".

In everyday usage "a theory" is an - as yet - untested idea. Too much Sherlock Holmes! The word a scientist would use is probably hypothesis, but a hypothesis is an idea, a concept, which is potentially testable. A hypothesis test will either allow the hypothesis to be confirmed or rejected.

If a hypothesis has been tested then it gives rise to further tests. All of these tests give results. After a sufficient number of successfully tested hypotheses have been tested then a pattern or framework which explains the results may develop. It is this explanatory framework which is the theory.

When it has been developed sufficiently, the theory will enable predictions to be made. If the predictions are supported empirically, then the theory is developed.

"Evolution" is a theory, which means it is not just a speculative guess. It is the consequence of thousands of studies, experiments, observations. These thousands of studies, in general, support each other. The theory of evolution gives just about as complete and accurate an understanding of the development of homo sapiens as it is possible to get.

The limiting factor when studying evolution in homo sapiens is the length of time taken by successive generations to reproduce. There are other species which have a short reproduction cycle. Successive generations can be studied in a fairly short time and evolution can be seen in action.

As Torridon has stated, the ability to digest milk, the possession of a white skin and blue eyes are all evidence of mutations in the human genome and hence evidence that evolution is real.

Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?