Magic

[ippy]

Ippy, you miss the point.

Someone puts up a Gods scenario, and you disbelieve it.

It doesn't matter if it's Jesus, Thor or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

People disbelieve in them, because they don't accept other people's beliefs about them.


Disbelieve4
be unable to believe.
"he seemed to disbelieve her"
synonyms:   not believe, not credit, give no credence to, discredit, discount, doubt, distrust, mistrust, be suspicious of, have no confidence/faith in, be incredulous of, be unconvinced about; not accept, reject, repudiate, question, challenge, contradict; informaltake with a pinch of salt
"he totally disbelieved her"
incredulous, unbelieving, doubtful, dubious, unconvinced;
distrustful, mistrustful, suspicious, lacking trust, cynical, sceptical
"he gave a disbelieving laugh"


Lots of people are unconvinced that gods of any sort exist, they disbelieve.

Rose, have a think, take your time, how does anyone disbelieve in something that's not there?

 I don't mind the misnoma of atheist being used to describe my line of thought but I'm no more an atheist than I'm a non-stamp collector, I'm a non-religious person.

Until someone comes up with some kind of cast iron proof that there are gods in existance, I remain a non-religious person because there is no plausable reason for me to think that there is any such thing as a god in the first place.

I don't disbelieve in the wizard type persons of the Harry Potter kind because there's no reason to think there are real wizards and that would apply to any work of fiction, wizards, gods, unicorns, I don't disbelieve in any of those either.

Does that help, Rose?

ippy

[Sriram]

Dynamo is walking on a platform which is just far enough under the water to not be seen easily and also to allow shallow bottom boats such as the two canoes to pass over it. This adds to the illusion. The police boat that 'rescues' him would not be able to pass over it though!

That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on.  And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river.  And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!

The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.

[Gordon]

That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on.  And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river.  And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!

The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.

It's a trick, Sriram - if you knew how it was done it wouldn't be a trick. David Copperfield once made the Statue of Liberty disappear but do you believe it did?

These guys refer to themselves as illusionists for a reason.

[Ricky Spanish]

Dear Berational,

AYE!! Me and wee Albert.

Albert Einstein.

There are only two ways to live your life: as though nothing is a miracle, or as though everything is a miracle.

Gonnagle.

But everyone always ignores the extended part of this quote: "Although if you believe in miracles then you must be gullible".

[Sebastian Toe]

That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on.  And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river.  And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!

Would you kindly watch this view of the 'magic' and let me know where my statements are incorrect?

https://youtu.be/2Yx2hU9uv40

[Ricky Spanish]

Dear Berational,

You do know he was not an atheist, what I do know, he was a genius, a very deep thinking man, on all sorts of topics, and if he was alive, I think he would just laugh at my hero worship of him.

Gonnagle.

Hmmm, Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic", "religious nonbeliever" and a believer in "Spinoza's God".
Although he also expressed his conception of God as "pantheistic".

He also said that he had gradually lost his faith early in childhood:

. . . I came—though the child of entirely irreligious parents—to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books, I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. Mistrust of every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a sceptical attitude toward the convictions that were alive in any specific social environment—an attitude that has never again left me, even though, later on, it has been tempered by a better insight into the causal connections.

It is quite clear to me that the religious paradise of youth, which was thus lost, was a first attempt to free myself from the chains of the 'merely personal,' from an existence dominated by wishes, hopes, and primitive feelings. Out yonder, there was this huge world, which exists independently of us human beings and which stands before us like a great, eternal riddle, at least partially accessible to our inspection and thinking. The contemplation of this world beckoned as a liberation, and I soon noticed that many a man whom I had learned to esteem and to admire had found inner freedom and security in its pursuit. The mental grasp of this extra-personal world within the frame of our capabilities presented itself to my mind, half consciously, half unconsciously, as a supreme goal. Similarly, motivated men of the present and of the past, as well as the insights they had achieved, were the friends who could not be lost. The road to this paradise was not as comfortable and alluring as the road to the religious paradise, but it has shown itself reliable, and I have never regretted having chosen it.

https://ia802307.us.archive.org/18/items/EinsteinAutobiography/EinsteinAutobiography.pdf

[Bubbles]

Rose, have a think, take your time, how does anyone disbelieve in something that's not there?

 I don't mind the misnoma of atheist being used to describe my line of thought but I'm no more an atheist than I'm a non-stamp collector, I'm a non-religious person.

Until someone comes up with some kind of cast iron proof that there are gods in existance, I remain a non-religious person because there is no plausable reason for me to think that there is any such thing as a god in the first place.

I don't disbelieve in the wizard type persons of the Harry Potter kind because there's no reason to think there are real wizards and that would apply to any work of fiction, wizards, gods, unicorns, I don't disbelieve in any of those either.

Does that help, Rose?

ippy

No.

If someone says something exists, and you don't believe it does, then you disbelieve in it.

Lots of people have looked at the evidence and disbelieve in the Loch Ness monster. They disbelieve in it.

Just because it's the word God, doesn't make any difference.

Lots of people have looked at for example, Catholics say and believe and decided they don't believe it, therefore they disbelieve.

Why are you so frightened of admitting you disbelieve in what religions claim?

Many people disbelieve in religion, but admit they don't actually know if something intelligent started the universe, but you can still look at the evidence that we know so far, and conclude you don't believe something did. That's disbelieving.

How can you only disbelieve in things that exist? 

It makes no sense.

[Bubbles]

That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on.  And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river.  And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!

The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.

It's only a temporary platform, the authorities wouldn't be interested.

Provided he removed it afterwards.

[Maeght]

That is rubbish! That is not a swimming pool, that is the Thames he is walking on.  And the water is not even ankle deep for him...and he walks almost half way into the river.  And how do you think he could have constructed a platform in the Thames without any of the authorities knowing?!!

The point is...its ok if we don't know. We don't HAVE to keep coming up with inane explanations.

What makes you think the authorities didn't know? This type of trick has been explained and demonstrated as using a platform just below the water level. But you won't accept that because you want to believe in magic.

[Maeght]

Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......

I think they really do!

[Sriram]

Would you kindly watch this view of the 'magic' and let me know where my statements are incorrect?

https://youtu.be/2Yx2hU9uv40

Hmmm....well...I agree that they seem to hit something at just one spot.  But they actually went over the places he had walked without hitting anything. They have not clarified that it is a glass platform.   

Also, given the depth of the Thames, constructing a glass platform of that length (right into the middle of the river) is a major construction job. And what about all the barges and yacht going around?!  I am not convinced that the authorities are going to allow any such nonsense that could be dangerous to other vessels.

Look...I am not saying its something supernatural. I don't believe in supernatural things. But I do believe that everything need not be explained through commonsense, mundane means.

[Sriram]

It's a trick, Sriram - if you knew how it was done it wouldn't be a trick. David Copperfield once made the Statue of Liberty disappear but do you believe it did?

These guys refer to themselves as illusionists for a reason.

Ok..illusion ...fine. Now..what exactly is an illusion? If a man can make hundreds of people standing on the spot suddenly stop seeing the Statue of Liberty or a train or a plane or the Taj Mahal...what does it say about our minds and that persons control over it?!  Is it normal mundane... oh hum... stuff?!

[Sebastian Toe]

Hmmm....well...I agree that they seem to hit something at just one spot.

If you look carefully at the water after the hit occurs, you can see the platform's outline.

But they actually went over the places he had walked without hitting anything. 

Did they? Really.
He gets on the boat, it backs up a bit, then goes away from where he was walking.

They have not clarified that it is a glass platform.

The voice on the video is saying
'It's the glass beneath'.
Why would he say that?

[Sebastian Toe]

Also, given the depth of the Thames, constructing a glass platform of that length (right into the middle of the river) is a major construction job.

The bridge has seven spans. The platform goes diagonally, no further than the first span.
Hardly half way across!

[jeremyp]

Hmmm....well...I agree that they seem to hit something at just one spot.  But they actually went over the places he had walked without hitting anything. They have not clarified that it is a glass platform.   

Given the colour of the Thames, it doesn't really have to be glass.

Also, given the depth of the Thames, constructing a glass platform of that length (right into the middle of the river) is a major construction job.

I don't know why you keep saying "right in the middle", he never got more than a few metres from the bank. And the Thames is tidal. Where he was walking would be dry land at low tide, so they could have constructed the platform without even getting their feet wet.

[jeremyp]

Oh, and in the video they have a boat positioned under the first span to stop anybody from using it and inadvertently hitting the platform.

[ippy]

No.

If someone says something exists, and you don't believe it does, then you disbelieve in it.

Lots of people have looked at the evidence and disbelieve in the Loch Ness monster. They disbelieve in it.

Just because it's the word God, doesn't make any difference.

Lots of people have looked at for example, Catholics say and believe and decided they don't believe it, therefore they disbelieve.

Why are you so frightened of admitting you disbelieve in what religions claim?

Many people disbelieve in religion, but admit they don't actually know if something intelligent started the universe, but you can still look at the evidence that we know so far, and conclude you don't believe something did. That's disbelieving.

How can you only disbelieve in things that exist? 

It makes no sense.

You really don't get it Rose, not to worry.

ippy

[Sriram]

Given the colour of the Thames, it doesn't really have to be glass.

I don't know why you keep saying "right in the middle", he never got more than a few metres from the bank. And the Thames is tidal. Where he was walking would be dry land at low tide, so they could have constructed the platform without even getting their feet wet.

Yes...I generally agree with you.  But constructing a glass platform in full public view is too obvious and elaborate a hoax for a magician. Looks silly! Half of central  London would have known about it.

Jesus didn't have glass platforms btw!

If some magicians can create illusions of disappearing trains and planes and levitation and so on, I think they can walk on water too.  I actually don't see a problem.

The point is, how is the illusion created what does that tell us about the mind?

[SqueakyVoice]

The point is, how is the illusion created what does that tell us about the mind?

That the mind is general pretty easy to trick and prefers a fantastic story to a mundane reality.

[Sebastian Toe]

If some magicians can create illusions of disappearing trains and planes and levitation and so on,

The clue is in the word 'illusion' ;
an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience

Once you understand that then you will realise that the 'events' in question did not actually happen as portrayed!

[Sebastian Toe]

The point is, how is the illusion created what does that tell us about the mind?

It tells us that there are gullible people, everywhere.

[Bubbles]

One interesting idea is that he could have used features under the Thames, like an old Roman road which can be just under the water at low tide.

Someone has put up articles in the comments.

https://100gf.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/how-did-dynamo-walk-across-the-river-thames-magician-performs-stunt-for-tv-show/

http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/thames-estuary/thames-estuary/expanded.asp

I favour the plexiform platform as a means, but making use of low tide and natural featured would be interesting

[Bubbles]

Sriram

Dynamo has also revealed how he does some of his illusions

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/news/500006/Dynamo-secrets-revealed-Samsung-Galaxy-S7

[Aruntraveller]

Sriram

Dynamo has also revealed how he does some of his illusions

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/news/500006/Dynamo-secrets-revealed-Samsung-Galaxy-S7

MEh - just a fluff of promo for Samsung.