Author Topic: USA Doctor accused of FGM  (Read 2730 times)

john

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USA Doctor accused of FGM
« on: April 14, 2017, 12:19:33 PM »
A female doctor in the USA has carried out many such operations (sic) over many years.

Of course she may as she claims be "not guilty" but it is good to see that one government somewhere seems to be trying to get a grip on this hideous practice.

Cannot understand why there have never been any prosecutions here in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39597062
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Jack Knave

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 05:09:37 PM »
A female doctor in the USA has carried out many such operations (sic) over many years.

Of course she may as she claims be "not guilty" but it is good to see that one government somewhere seems to be trying to get a grip on this hideous practice.

Cannot understand why there have never been any prosecutions here in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39597062
There has to be proof for the courts to prosecute and as with these things the communities involved in them tend to have a code of silence and secrecy. Also it may mean rating on your parents etc. which could not only have emotional consequences but also social ones as well.

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 09:10:43 PM »
It happens here and always has. British doctors do it. I too am surprised there aren't more prosecutions over here. The surgeons justify it by saying it will be done anyway and better done by a professional in hygienic surroundings.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 12:25:00 AM by Robinson »
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floo

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 11:33:40 AM »
There is NEVER any justification for performing FGM. >:(

Jack Knave

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 06:40:07 PM »
It happens here and always has. British doctors do it. I too am surprised there aren't more prosecutions over here. The surgeons justify it by saying it will be done anyway and better done by a professional in hygienic surroundings.
I find that hard to believe. If the doctors know the child then they know the parents and then the police can be involved in investigating it.

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 07:54:31 PM »
It's done on the quiet, Jack, private clinics and all that. Illegal operations have always happened where there is demand unfortunately. It's quite beyond my understanding how anyone could justify doing something like that but money talks and there are unscrupulous people in every society.
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floo

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 08:36:46 AM »
When health checks are carried out on kids maybe looking out for signs of FGM should be routine.

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2017, 10:49:37 AM »
Teachers and suchlike are told about signs to be looked for, often unmistakeable. Nor sure every kid should have their bits looked at by doctors routinely, there would be objections to that from the kids themselves and it would have to be same rule for all. Prevention is the answer, once done it's too late. Girls often go to another country, parents' country, for a trip and have it done there. Then there are foreign docs who come here and perform FGM, it's not difficult to set up a clinic in a big private house. They will be arrested and charged if caught but rarely caught, just like the British doctors who do it. There's a culture of secrecy.

It's such an ancient practice which has great importance for some groups. Much education is needed to break this horrible tradition & it's up to women to do this.
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floo

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2017, 10:52:59 AM »
I think circumcision of boys for religious reasons is also very wrong, it should only be performed if there is a medical need.

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 11:09:41 AM »
That doesn't do harm though & is cleaner. I can't see male circumcision being banned,all the Jews, Muslims & many Africans would be up in arms about it, they've been circumcised forever without problems.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 11:12:51 AM »
That doesn't do harm though & is cleaner. I can't see male circumcision being banned,all the Jews, Muslims & many Africans would be up in arms about it, they've been circumcised forever without problems.
Not what some think

https://www.circinfo.org/USA_deaths.html

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 11:17:54 AM »
In the USA it is common practice for all not just religious. More care needs to be taken with anaesthetics & cleanliness but not banning.
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BeRational

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 02:36:46 PM »
In the USA it is common practice for all not just religious. More care needs to be taken with anaesthetics & cleanliness but not banning.

It should be banned until the person can choose for themselves
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 05:31:35 PM »
I agree with you BeR. From what I've read & heard, used to be 'fashionable' here years ago too but is not done routinely now. However I won't interfere with religious beliefs of others, respects Jews & Muslims and haven't heard of Jewish boys dying after circumcisiion. If they change the rules & deicide for themselves circumcision is no longer a necessary part of their belief so be it but can imagine the outcry if they were banned from doing it; itwould be driven underground (like FGM & there's no comparison between male circumcision & FGM),and that would be far worse! It's a simple procedure, rite of passage, no need for any child to be ill or die because of it.
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splashscuba

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 08:13:21 PM »
That doesn't do harm though & is cleaner. I can't see male circumcision being banned,all the Jews, Muslims & many Africans would be up in arms about it, they've been circumcised forever without problems.
Children are not consenting though. If you, as an adult, want to get your bits cut then by all means.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 08:27:08 PM »
Yes, Robinson is right. Male genital mutilation was fashionable. I was a victim of that fashion.

At a few days of age, in the privacy of my mother's bedroom, a midwife removed my prepuce. Shortly after their births, those of my brothers were similarly removed. To the best of my knowledge no doctor was involved and nor was my father (though  he, too, was without prepuce). Midwives offered the additional service and possessed a little device to grip and slice off the small sliver of skin. There was no anaesthesia. It was a conspiracy between women - as its female equivalent.

I doubt that circumcision will ever be shown happening in Call The Midwife.

When I changed for PE or swimming, I realised that a majority of boys my age had been similarly treated.

Its origin appears to have been the USA and I suppose the American use of the English language is the reason it was not practised in Continental Europe. It was advocated originally by John Harvey Kellogg, a man who demonised sexual intercourse (and also invented a breakfast cereal that was so lacking in nutrients that it would not provide energy that could be wasted in sexual activity). He believed that removal of the prepuce would reduce the physical sensations of coitus and hence make it less attractive. Certainly, it removes the most highly innervated tissue of the male sexual apparatus.

To say that there is no comparison between FGN and MGN is disingenuous, Robinson, they both involve removal of highly innervated structures without the informed consent of the possessor of those structures, though I do agree that FGN is more destructive.

Kellogg's distaste for sexual activity became translated into a need for "hygiene" and the belief that a circumcised penis would not harbour dangerous bacteria in its folds. Naive, enthusiastic young mothers were convinced of the advantages of "cleanliness" and, presumably, the additional service became a nice little earner for midwives.

It was a conspiracy between women.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 08:46:36 PM by Harrowby Hall »
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trippymonkey

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 08:33:58 PM »
Need we ask which retarded religions 'require' this ????

Nick

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 08:35:52 PM »

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 09:34:01 PM »
There's no fashion for it here now and it wouldn't be my choice for a child to have it without medical reason but I know how important it is to Jews so, what do we do? If we campaigned against it and it was made illegal it would send the practice underground which would be far less safe,as well as accusations of anti-semitism.

Harrowby I had no idea midwives performed circumcision! You're right it isn't shown on Call the Midwife. Neither did I know about the breakfast cereal man.

In the autobiography by John Cleese, he tells of when he went away to school and the boys asked him if he was a Cavalier or a Roundhead, names for uncircumised and circumcised.

NearlyS - just read the Mail link and that practice of sucking the wound sounds seriously weird as well as dangerous. It's good that Rabbi said it is primitive nonsense.

Nick, you asked what 'primitive religions' require circumcision.Jews are the ones we think of first of all but Muslims do it too on older boys, both Abrahamic religions whcih you might think of as primitive, I don't know.  Most African men are circumcised regardless of religion.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 09:41:09 AM by Robinson »
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jeremyp

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2017, 11:20:52 AM »
That doesn't do harm though & is cleaner. I can't see male circumcision being banned,all the Jews, Muslims & many Africans would be up in arms about it, they've been circumcised forever without problems.
This is not true.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/06/07/how-11-new-york-city-babies-contracted-herpes-through-circumcision/

Circumcision is an irreversible procedure with no medical justification in most cases. It should not be performed on anybody who is unable to give consent.
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Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 03:09:16 PM »
jeremy - from yesterday:

And, of course, there is harm on some religious practice of MGM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170825/New-York-wants-ban-Jewish-circumcision-ritual-causes-fatal-HERPES-babies.html

& comments, haven't read all yet except yours.
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jeremyp

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 03:27:17 PM »
There's no fashion for it here now and it wouldn't be my choice for a child to have it without medical reason but I know how important it is to Jews so, what do we do? If we campaigned against it and it was made illegal it would send the practice underground which would be far less safe,as well as accusations of anti-semitism.
If there was a religious sect that had the practice of cutting the baby's little finger off, how would you feel about that? Would you let them carry on because otherwise it would only go underground?

I have no problem with the idea of Jews being circumcised to signify their religion (although it seems bizarre to signify it by cutting a bit off that most people won't ever see), but they need to do it when the person is able to consent and after that person has decided, of their own free will, that they really do want Judaism to be their religion.
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Rhiannon

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 03:31:39 PM »
I agree. My first sexual partner was circumcised just because it was the fashion at the time and it wasn't good. Blokes have that bit for a reason. If they choose to get rid of it for aesthetic or religious purposes then they should do so as an adult when it is a free choice (I think this gives it a far more weight as a religious act anyway).

Robbie

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2017, 03:39:50 PM »
jeremy- If there was a religious sect that had the practice of cutting the baby's little finger off, how would you feel about that? Would you let them carry on because otherwise it would only go underground?

No!

Rhiannon - never had a problem with a circumcised man  :-[ (yet).
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jeremyp

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Re: USA Doctor accused of FGM
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 03:41:14 PM »
jeremy- If there was a religious sect that had the practice of cutting the baby's little finger off, how would you feel about that? Would you let them carry on because otherwise it would only go underground?

No!
And yet you make excuses for Judaism.

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