Worship

[BeRational]

Dear Berational,

The Golden Rule has everything to do with Christianity, it is where it starts, if you believe in Christ and his teachings, but I have already explained this and if you don't believe in Christ then that is fine, if you follow another path, then more power to the path you are on.

Gonnagle.

The golden rule predates christianity

[Rhiannon]

The golden rule predates christianity

Yes but it is still at its heart. When it is done properly anyway.

[BeRational]

Yes but it is still at its heart. When it is done properly anyway.

But it is at the heart of other faiths too so why pick one over another?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

I think one concern that I have with trying to love people is that in trying to help we can sometimes cock it right up. Least harm might be the right thing to do sometimes.

Which is why it is a very interesting moral dilemma, for instance, atheism ( here's where I get into trouble ) how can I walk in their shoes when I don't understand ( disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods ) how can you disbelieve in something that is ineffable, something unexplainable, of course you can take the whole subject of God off the table, physics and evolution is all you need, but that just does not sit well with me, this world this Universe, us, are more than just physics and evolution.

So if you practice loving your neighbour, it needs to be thought out, it can never be an off the cuff response, although most times we do do the off the cuff stuff and we can cock it right up.

Gonnagle.

PS: Atheism is just one example, but I love it when they get all hot and bothered.

[Rhiannon]

But it is at the heart of other faiths too so why pick one over another?

Because we are all different. Ultimately it is what speaks to the individual.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Rhiannon,

Which is why it is a very interesting moral dilemma, for instance, atheism ( here's where I get into trouble ) how can I walk in their shoes when I don't understand ( disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods ) how can you disbelieve in something that is ineffable, something unexplainable, of course you can take the whole subject of God off the table, physics and evolution is all you need, but that just does not sit well with me, this world this Universe, us, are more than just physics and evolution.

So if you practice loving your neighbour, it needs to be thought out, it can never be an off the cuff response, although most times we do do the off the cuff stuff and we can cock it right up.

Gonnagle.

PS: Atheism is just one example, but I love it when they get all hot and bothered.

I don't really see how you can do the 'wrong thing' by an atheist simply on the basis of their being an atheist. But I've learned not to judge drug addicts or alcoholics and that anorexics and bulimics aren't just interested in being skinny and that it is so, so easy to say the wrong thing to someone who has been abused or who wants to kill themselves. Sometimes you can say, 'I don't understand, I don't know what to say but I am here' and sometimes you give them the card for the Samaritans because if you try to help you are just way out of your depth.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

Agreed, we both have similar approaches, so I hope we can both agree that loving your neighbour needs deep understanding of our neighbour, another example, a Muslim, I need more information regarding that faith, what I have learned so far, it is a beautiful religion but right now is being hijacked by some very sick individuals, and just like Christianity it has its very bad and very good points.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Rhiannon,

Agreed, we both have similar approaches, so I hope we can both agree that loving your neighbour needs deep understanding of our neighbour, another example, a Muslim, I need more information regarding that faith, what I have learned so far, it is a beautiful religion but right now is being hijacked by some very sick individuals, and just like Christianity it has its very bad and very good points.

Gonnagle.

Yes, it need understanding, or a willingness to learn, an open mind and also a willingness to say, I don't know.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I have a feeling, maybe I'm wrong, that you are trying to fashion the word 'worship' to suit your own particular interpretation which seems to emphasise the doing of good to others. In which case I suggest  that the word 'worship' would be in danger of becoming so generalised as to become rather meaningless.

For the non believer worship entails submission and probably the fear of having to bend the knee.
Since technically ego is the king of the non believer, I can understand why the word is upsetting.

[Rhiannon]

For the non believer worship entails submission and probably the fear of having to bend the knee.
Since technically ego is the king of the non believer, I can understand why the word is upsetting.

All these casual insults must make you feel so much better. You do realise that humility doesn't really work when coated with a veneer of smugness?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

All these casual insults must make you feel so much better. You do realise that humility doesn't really work when coated with a veneer of smugness?

It isn't smugness at all. What does a non believer refer or defer to if not themselves. Is the non believer not her own last word?

[Rhiannon]

It isn't smugness at all. What does a non believer refer or defer to if not themselves. Is the non believer not her own last word?

Refer to - defer to - the expertise of people who know stuff, wise friends, artists, poets, writers...Jesus had some wise things to say, don't you think?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Refer to - defer to - the expertise of people who know stuff, wise friends, artists, poets, writers...Jesus had some wise things to say, don't you think?

Yes, but isn't this the supermarket approach? By that I mean, aren't we shopping around for stuff we like.

Christianity is different. It starts with what is the troubling diagnosis that you need saving. When one is clear on that and makes a commitment to Christ one looks to Jesus for improvement through a dynamic relationship. Not through command adherence except perhaps for Jesus's commandment of love. It's a journey of discovery based on the light we have and the light we are getting.

[Sebastian Toe]

It starts with what is the troubling diagnosis that you need saving.

That is indeed troubling.
And sad.
Probably not for the reasons you think though.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That is indeed troubling.
And sad.
Probably not for the reasons you think though.

You could explain but you've probably exceeded your personal allowance of words which allow you to be brief and pithy...(excuse me I have a Lisp)

[Rhiannon]

Yes, but isn't this the supermarket approach? By that I mean, aren't we shopping around for stuff we like.

Christianity is different. It starts with what is the troubling diagnosis that you need saving. When one is clear on that and makes a commitment to Christ one looks to Jesus for improvement through a dynamic relationship. Not through command adherence except perhaps for Jesus's commandment of love. It's a journey of discovery based on the light we have and the light we are getting.

'Stuff we like'' ... patronising, ignorant and small minded. Well done you.

As an aside we all know that Jonathan Edwards lost his faith. How many remember the Spirituality Shopper programme that he did? It concluded that pretty much anything can fill the need we have for something spiritual - shamanic drumming, zen meditation, gospel singing - and Mr Edwards came away from the programme looking somewhat bemused by the fact that Christianity isn't the one true way. I do wonder how much his experience of spirituality shopping contributed to his losing faith.

You're in the supermarket of life just like everyone else. You have found what floats your boat, something that makes you feel special because you *know* how shit you are while the rest of us labour under the illusion that we are generally ok. The 'troubling' thing is that you think that your myths and stories can save you instead of realising that we all have to save ourselves, individually and collectively.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

'Stuff we like'' ... patronising, ignorant and small minded. Well done you.

As an aside we all know that Jonathan Edwards lost his faith. How many remember the Spirituality Shopper programme that he did? It concluded that pretty much anything can fill the need we have for something spiritual - shamanic drumming, zen meditation, gospel singing - and Mr Edwards came away from the programme looking somewhat bemused by the fact that Christianity isn't the one true way. I do wonder how much his experience of spirituality shopping contributed to his losing faith.

You're in the supermarket of life just like everyone else. You have found what floats your boat, something that makes you feel special because you *know* how shit you are while the rest of us labour under the illusion that we are generally ok. The 'troubling' thing is that you think that your myths and stories can save you instead of realising that we all have to save ourselves, individually and collectively.

Saving ourselves? I read recently that we are back nearly to where we were at around the Cuban missile crisis and that was in 1962.

[Sebastian Toe]

You could explain but you've probably exceeded your personal allowance of words which allow you to be brief and pithy...(excuse me I have a Lisp)

Surely you mean that you have a lithp? 

I could explain once I return to this thread, which I will be leaving, indefinitely.
Au revoir.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Surely you mean that you have a lithp? 

Yes er, whoops....Oh, Thit!

[Rhiannon]

Saving ourselves? I read recently that we are back nearly to where we were at around the Cuban missile crisis and that was in 1962.

Yeah, this is because we have good Christian men running the show. How is your god going to save us?

[SweetPea]

Through a relationship with Jesus Christ, as Vlad has tried to explain. Remember:

.... For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6:12