UK General Election 2017

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting



http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/green-party-may-not-stand-in-plymouth-to-help-labour-beat-tories/story-30281450-detail/story.html

[Aruntraveller]

Dear Glimmer of Hope,

I see some Labour supporters on here looking for a Leader, so what would that Leader be, a Winston, a Wilson, a Thatcher, a Blair.

Not me, I don't care who leads, as long as they are as one voice, that Corbyn fellow cares not a jot, as long as you fight for injustice, against poverty and the fellowship of man.

So carrying on looking for a strong leader, me, I would rather look for a party that has the good of the country at heart.

Gonnagle.

Principles are all well and good Gonners - but if you are not in a position to change things that is all you will have.

As a leader Corbyn does not convince me, and I agree with him on most issues - how the hell is he going to convince others in the population who are less inclined towards his position.

No, as others have said he is leading a political protest group - not a party. It is sad, disheartening and ultimately tragic that the Labour party is not the opposition it should be and needs to be.

[ekim]

As a leader Corbyn does not convince me, and I agree with him on most issues - how the hell is he going to convince others in the population who are less inclined towards his position.

Maybe Putin's hackers will do it for him? 

[Aruntraveller]

Maybe Putin's hackers will do it for him? 

 

Unlikely though, I  would think Putin's sympathies lie in other directions.

[ProfessorDavey]

I would rather look for a party that has the good of the country at heart.

You can have a party that has 'the good of the country at heart' all your like (albeit there are of course different opinions on what is good for the country). However if that party cannot get elected what good are they - a party of good intentions in opposition helps no-one - indeed by definition another party will be implementing different policies by the very fact of their failure to get elected.

Principle without the means of implementation is pointless in politics. The way you actually make a difference isn't by having a great policy, but by being able to implement that policy and to do that you need to get elected.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Trent,

A political protest group! I am trying to convince myself that there is something wrong with that, nope! sounds about right, a protest against all that is Tory, well my vote for the SNP is going to be exactly that, I don't want to break the Union but England is set on a spiraling downward trend, a race to the bottom.

I have been reading most of the links so far on this thread and the one that struck me most was Jim's Wee Ginger dug link, the Labour party since day dot ( and they are still continuing ) have shot themselves in the foot by not backing Corbyn, instead of challenging the Tories they have spent their time infighting, looking for the great hope that would lead their party to new and wonderful future.

I have read statements that say Corbyn has no charisma, well that has me thinking, and I am now rethinking my own thinking, because yes!! I was looking for someone with charisma, and I am now thinking would you vote for May on charisma alone.

Most of the posts from Labour supporters on this thread, have by and large, agreed with the mans policies but they don't see him as a leader, strange again, if we choose someone else, who!! Would it be someone who has the same policies as Corbyn or someone who is more Tory thinking, a Torylite Labour leader

What I have noticed from Corbyn is he not a man to tell people to shut up and tow the party line, maybe that is the kind of leader the Labour party need, shut up and do what I tell you, never mind what your conscience tells you, I see this most vividly in our Scottish Conservative leader ( I did at one time have a lot of time for this lady ) but she now seems to be Mays lap dog.

To end, it is my conscience that is telling me to vote SNP, goodbye to all that rubbish that I clung to, goodbye Union Jack, goodbye your Majesty, goodbye to being British and proud of it, goodbye to all my Mancunian,Brummie, Cockney, Liverpudlian, Geordie, Taffy, Paddy ( Taffy and Paddy ) brother and sisters, I hope we can still meet at the border ( whatever that border looks like ) and have a laugh at our silly British way of life, well I will reminisce, but I hope you will not be to offended when I remind you that it was you who voted in the most unChristian, unBritish party we have ever had.

Gonnagle.

[Aruntraveller]

but I hope you will not be to offended when I remind you that it was you who voted in the most unChristian, unBritish party we have ever had.

I hope you too realize that the vast majority of us did no such thing.

The fact that we have an antiquated and somewhat eccentric electoral system ensured the Conservative party its place as the government.

[Anchorman]

Dear Trent,

A political protest group! I am trying to convince myself that there is something wrong with that, nope! sounds about right, a protest against all that is Tory, well my vote for the SNP is going to be exactly that, I don't want to break the Union but England is set on a spiraling downward trend, a race to the bottom.

I have been reading most of the links so far on this thread and the one that struck me most was Jim's Wee Ginger dug link, the Labour party since day dot ( and they are still continuing ) have shot themselves in the foot by not backing Corbyn, instead of challenging the Tories they have spent their time infighting, looking for the great hope that would lead their party to new and wonderful future.

I have read statements that say Corbyn has no charisma, well that has me thinking, and I am now rethinking my own thinking, because yes!! I was looking for someone with charisma, and I am now thinking would you vote for May on charisma alone.

Most of the posts from Labour supporters on this thread, have by and large, agreed with the mans policies but they don't see him as a leader, strange again, if we choose someone else, who!! Would it be someone who has the same policies as Corbyn or someone who is more Tory thinking, a Torylite Labour leader

What I have noticed from Corbyn is he not a man to tell people to shut up and tow the party line, maybe that is the kind of leader the Labour party need, shut up and do what I tell you, never mind what your conscience tells you, I see this most vividly in our Scottish Conservative leader ( I did at one time have a lot of time for this lady ) but she now seems to be Mays lap dog.

To end, it is my conscience that is telling me to vote SNP, goodbye to all that rubbish that I clung to, goodbye Union Jack, goodbye your Majesty, goodbye to being British and proud of it, goodbye to all my Mancunian,Brummie, Cockney, Liverpudlian, Geordie, Taffy, Paddy ( Taffy and Paddy ) brother and sisters, I hope we can still meet at the border ( whatever that border looks like ) and have a laugh at our silly British way of life, well I will reminisce, but I hope you will not be to offended when I remind you that it was you who voted in the most unChristian, unBritish party we have ever had.

Gonnagle.

-
I like Paul Kavanagh's stuff as well, Gonners - and many who think the nationalist cause is a one-trick pony don't.
Kavanagh - "The Wee Ginger Dug" - is not a member of any party - though like you he was once very much a Labour man.
I suppose he's a symbol of the civic nationalist we bang on about - a gay man in a civil partnership looking toward a new Scotland.
Works for me!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Trent,

My apologies, it was not directed at your good self, it was just me being me and putting my thoughts out there.

Gonnagle.

[Aruntraveller]

Dear Trent,

My apologies, it was not directed at your good self, it was just me being me and putting my thoughts out there.

Gonnagle.

No worries I do realize that. But to characterize the English population as being in thrall to the Tories is clearly wrong.

The Conservatives at the last GE (2015) only got 36.9% of the votes cast and yet that translated into 50.8% of MP's.

This is not, and never has been, a representative democracy.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jim, old friend, pal,

I am not a Labour man, I am a what is right man, and I have said this before but I voted in Thatcher, I wanted an end to the strangle hold the Unions had over this country, but if I could have foreseen the misery and hardship this caused I would have never voted for that woman, I should have listened to my old quiet socialist Da ( a bit like Corbyn ) and he would be wondering what the hell I am doing voting SNP!!

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

I note that the Tory line is that if the SNP don't get as many seats I.e. if they were only to get 55 out of 59 seats, or if the total number of votes fall from the 2015 election I.e. if the turnout falls from 71.4 even if the SNP increase their share of the vote (which was 49.97% way higher than any UK govt in living memory, ETA well if you count 1931 as not being in living memory )  and it was that it us a defeat for the SNP. (Obviously these are fundamentally hypocritical and dishonest positions from the Tories but given that we are having an election we were told we weren't from someone who has said they weren't able to pursue a mandate when they were perfectly capable of doing so, a few more lies are hardly an issue)


Which bolsters the argument that the SNP manifesto should state that if it gets a 2/3 majority of seats that it has a mandate to call a referendum at the time of its and other parties  choosing given its govt in Holyrood.

[Anchorman]

As a certain wummin used to say..... "There Is No Alternative." I wish it were otherwise. Even though I'm a staunch separatist (you might just have noticed that....) we need a strong alternative here in Scotland. We don't have one. Even though the Tories look like they are a strong second in Holyrood, one look at the voting numbers would show that they, like Labour, are pretty well down the order - and that's not really good in a democracy. The problem lies squarely with them, thoough. The Tories might regain a few seats here, but little more than a toe hold. It's Scottish Labour which concerns me; they simply don't know where they are going. The same in-fighting and division which infests Labour down south is complicated by the fact that the leader and dep uty leader up here are simp;ly not talking to each other - a situation which has been ongoing for over a year now - and which leaves SLAB worse than the branch office the previous leader accused it of being....it's like a coal celler full of rats squabbling when there's little to squabble over and the hoouse has gone electric.

[Nearly Sane]

I see Tim Farron has refused so far to rule out a coalition with the Tories (currently highly unlikely as a possibility). I know he's trying to gain votes from Remain Tories but it will be problematic for any non Remain Tories.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Aye!! ( the ayes have it the ayes have it, unlock the doors ) I was reading about that in one of your links, Ruth and Nicola have their work cut out and poor Keza, well that lady, sending her a bucket to bail out, nope! I think that boat has sunk, not the fitters yard but the scrapyard.

On the bright side, once we gain Independence ( I think that is a foregone conclusion, the Tories have seen to that ) that lady can go on to build a new Scottish Labour party.

Gonnagle.

PS: I will miss all that old stuffy house of Commons nonsense, out with the old and in with the, well newish!!

[Nearly Sane]

I think the link you are referring to, Gonzo, was the Craig Murray one arguing that the manifesto should contain a commitment to UDI? That seems unfeasible to me given the constitution and, also unjust at base to those who want to stay in the Union, which is why I modified it as a commitment.


Unlike you, I don't see independence as inevitable, and as noted before, am not sure how I would vote in indyref2. That said the idea that is being touted that opposition in a parliamentary system is somehow problematic, even when you win votes has a whiff of totalitarianism that makes me want no part of it.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

I see no alternative to breaking away from Westminster.

I am a simple man ( some would say to simple ) I have had enough of Tory failure, screwing the poor whilst giving the rich a free ride ( although I am dead against Corbyns policy of taxing the hell out of the rich ) of cosying up to the Saudi's and Trump, of screwing up our NHS, of playing with our kids education, of not kitting out our armed services properly but thinking nothing of the cost of trident, sorry just caught myself going off on another rant

Gonnagle.

PS: Warning! the political section of the R&E can raise the blood pressure.

[Nearly Sane]

Farewell, Douglas Carswell



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39655704

[Ricky Spanish]

Only 11% of newspaper articles about Jeremy Corbyn fairly represent a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-right Daily Mail and Express that figure falls to 0%.

Here's an article outlining some of Corbyn's headline policies, so that you can judge for yourself whether you agree with them.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/how-many-of-jeremy-corbyns-policies-do.html?m=1

[Rhiannon]

Farewell, Douglas Carswell



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39655704

That's one way of putting it.

[Jack Knave]

In what way is it a fake - that is the official manifesto of Vote Leave, the official leave campaign in the referendum.
No they aren't - a campaign is based on their manifesto, which turned out to be a pack of lies from start to end.

How about this one (again direct quote from their manifesto):

'we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave' (my emphasis).

How's that going then - triggering article 50 was the start of the legal process to leave, so where is the new deal that has clearly been negotiated? Must have missed that one. Oh, my mistake, just another outright lie.

They weren't running for power or to do the negotiations, they were only setting out an argument, therefore, no manifesto was even imaginable as it would have been pointless. People voted based on that argument.

[Jack Knave]

That's what they said in their official manifesto.

So JK, what exactly is this free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border that we will still be part of - note not have access to, but still be part of - i.e. we were part of when members of the EU and remain part of when we leave.

Part of isn't official language. You can make it mean what you like. We can still be part of something without all the silly rules, if that is what is agreed.

[Jack Knave]

Principles are all well and good Gonners - but if you are not in a position to change things that is all you will have.

As a leader Corbyn does not convince me, and I agree with him on most issues - how the hell is he going to convince others in the population who are less inclined towards his position.

No, as others have said he is leading a political protest group - not a party. It is sad, disheartening and ultimately tragic that the Labour party is not the opposition it should be and needs to be.

They had similar thoughts about Trump and now look.....pigs may fly....?

[Jack Knave]

Maybe Putin's hackers will do it for him? 

It worked for Trump. 

[Jack Knave]

I see Tim Farron has refused so far to rule out a coalition with the Tories (currently highly unlikely as a possibility). I know he's trying to gain votes from Remain Tories but it will be problematic for any non Remain Tories.

So what?