Author Topic: UK General Election 2017  (Read 114140 times)

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #275 on: May 01, 2017, 07:58:04 PM »
No. Without Theresa May, a debate for him is a no win situation. Best case scenario: he doesn't screw up against the also rans. Worst case scenario: the Lib Dems eat his lunch.

Without the party in power and front runner, the debates are a pointless waste of time for Corbyn.
good points, but in not going for them he looks like her lapdog. Hr should have gone for them and ignored everyone else, just said 'not leading but hiding' every ten seconds, and 'weak and lying ng' every 5. He needed to take risks her and seize the chance.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #276 on: May 01, 2017, 08:01:59 PM »
No. It was your response to Jakswan's request for a comment on policy. I think it's reasonable for him to infer that any response to his question would involve a comment on policy and therefore he is fine to call you out for just mentioning an issue.

The policy you were looking for was Labour's pledge to abolish the 1% cap on NHS pay rises.
Jakswan's post that there was no comments on policy. Not that there wasn't a statement of policy. And no, that's not the policy I was looking for.   Anyway off to gig now, have a nice night.

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #277 on: May 01, 2017, 09:18:10 PM »
The hard left reduced to sneering all over this thread, very sad.

Channelling your inner Trump?

Quote
Any comment on policy?

Which one, she keeps changing them when they are sneered at.

Quote
Triple lock becoming a double lock.

A bad idea. Who does it benefit exactly?
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12485
    • Preloved Ads
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #278 on: May 01, 2017, 11:14:57 PM »
Didn't ask if it was a policy. May's answer on it was policy and idea free though.

Blimey its like listening to the SNP, anytime I see them being asked about policy it starts 'The Tories....'.

So the Tories don't have a policy to address the issue, who has a policy that you like that does?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12485
    • Preloved Ads
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #279 on: May 01, 2017, 11:18:13 PM »
Channelling your inner Trump?

No I hate Trump, how is your inner Stalin?

Quote
Which one, she keeps changing them when they are sneered at.

As I recall you listed 20 things about labour I questioned you on them and you never came back.

Quote
A bad idea. Who does it benefit exactly?

The tax payer.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17587
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #280 on: May 02, 2017, 07:52:16 AM »
No I hate Trump, how is your inner Stalin?

As I recall you listed 20 things about labour I questioned you on them and you never came back.

The tax payer.
Still waiting for you to answer the question I posed upthread, which was:

Who, in your opinion, represents the hard left on this forum?

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12485
    • Preloved Ads
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #281 on: May 02, 2017, 08:56:40 AM »
Still waiting for you to answer the question I posed upthread, which was:

Who, in your opinion, represents the hard left on this forum?

Hard to say since mostly posters seem to sneer, Ricky is a fan of Corbyn, Gonzo likes Corbyn.

You come across as centrist left btw.

I suppose its hard to discuss policy currently as no manifestos have been launched, Labour seem to be spending a lot in pledges and promises.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17587
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #282 on: May 02, 2017, 09:40:30 AM »
Hard to say since mostly posters seem to sneer, Ricky is a fan of Corbyn, Gonzo likes Corbyn.
Not sure that either appear to me to be 'hard left' - perhaps you've never met any of the people I know and would consider to be hard left, i.e. those for whom the Labour party is far to centrist and align themselves with the SWP or various forms of communism.

I'm struggling to see how Ricky is 'hard left' particularly as your most recent debate with him is over the triple lock, a policy brought in by the Tories, which he was defending.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #283 on: May 02, 2017, 10:44:16 AM »
Blimey its like listening to the SNP, anytime I see them being asked about policy it starts 'The Tories....'.
a bit of sneering and a generalization with a hint of confirnation bias. You know if you want to complain about what happens on her as discourse it might help if your default wasn't what you charge others with. I think it is important for the party that was in govt, that chose to hold an unnecessary election to at least be capable of presenting policies rather than argue that nurses using foodbanks is not some sort of a problem.


Quote
So the Tories don't have a policy to address the issue, who has a policy that you like that does?
Had May been capable of saying 'Yes, that is a problem, and we will have to address it, we will have further information in the manifesro', then it might have been acceptable but she wasn't because she's unable to even admit it as a real issue as it points out a basic failing in the govt she had been a member of for 7 years.

As to other parties, I don't think the Labour party policies so far will address the fundamentals though the removal if the pay freeze is either going to be part of it, or an extension of tax credits in some way. I think any attempt to address it has to look at fundamental reform of welfare and taxation as a whole, rather than playing with bits here and there. I see no reason why sneering at bad policy, bad presentation of non existent policy and an inability to show leadership should be ignored when someone is running for election, and neither from your posting do you.

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #284 on: May 02, 2017, 10:45:06 AM »
No I hate Trump, how is your inner Stalin?

I've never thought of myself as a Stalinist... will have to look into that!!

Quote
As I recall you listed 20 things about labour I questioned you on them and you never came back.

Did you? OK, thanks for reminding me... again, I'll look into that.

Quote
The tax payer.

In what way?

The triple lock is all about keeping pensioner incomes in line with the rest of the population. Any measures to curb this lock could rapidly push more pensioners back into poverty. Thatcher decided to scrap the earnings link for the state pension in 1980 which was, in reality, seen as an attack on pensioners. The triple lock has at least partly restored some of the value that was lost during that particular period.

This government is currently committed to maintaining this triple-lock until 2020, which means it will raise the basic state pension by average earnings, inflation or 2.5%, whichever is higher. Do you think May will keep these same protections for the state pension if they win this snap general election?
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #285 on: May 02, 2017, 11:53:35 AM »

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12485
    • Preloved Ads
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #286 on: May 02, 2017, 12:44:07 PM »
a bit of sneering and a generalization with a hint of confirnation bias. You know if you want to complain about what happens on her as discourse it might help if your default wasn't what you charge others with. I think it is important for the party that was in govt, that chose to hold an unnecessary election to at least be capable of presenting policies rather than argue that nurses using foodbanks is not some sort of a problem.

 Had May been capable of saying 'Yes, that is a problem, and we will have to address it, we will have further information in the manifesro', then it might have been acceptable but she wasn't because she's unable to even admit it as a real issue as it points out a basic failing in the govt she had been a member of for 7 years.

As to other parties, I don't think the Labour party policies so far will address the fundamentals though the removal if the pay freeze is either going to be part of it, or an extension of tax credits in some way. I think any attempt to address it has to look at fundamental reform of welfare and taxation as a whole, rather than playing with bits here and there. I see no reason why sneering at bad policy, bad presentation of non existent policy and an inability to show leadership should be ignored when someone is running for election, and neither from your posting do you.

If all you do is sneer then there is little to debate. We will have to see what is in the manifesto.

btw "argue that nurses using foodbanks is not some sort of a problem" not sure what you are referring to here as when I watched May on Marr she skipped the question which is not the same as what you claim.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12485
    • Preloved Ads
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #287 on: May 02, 2017, 12:50:16 PM »
In what way?

The tax payer funds pensions.

Quote
The triple lock is all about keeping pensioner incomes in line with the rest of the population. Any measures to curb this lock could rapidly push more pensioners back into poverty. Thatcher decided to scrap the earnings link for the state pension in 1980 which was, in reality, seen as an attack on pensioners. The triple lock has at least partly restored some of the value that was lost during that particular period.

I think the policy will be a move to a double lock, I could be wrong but as I understood the lock is follows.

Increase pensions to be the highest of:-
1. Inflation
2. Wage inflation
3. 2.5%

Didn't Labour give an increase one year of 70p, could be wrong?

I suspect this will change to a double lock of

Increase pensions to be the highest of:-
1. Inflation
2. Wage inflation

Quote
This government is currently committed to maintaining this triple-lock until 2020, which means it will raise the basic state pension by average earnings, inflation or 2.5%, whichever is higher. Do you think May will keep these same protections for the state pension if they win this snap general election?

As explained I suspect the Tories will move to a double lock.

In broad terms how long will you like to see the triple lock maintained?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #288 on: May 02, 2017, 12:52:03 PM »
If all you do is sneer then there is little to debate. We will have to see what is in the manifesto.

btw "argue that nurses using foodbanks is not some sort of a problem" not sure what you are referring to here as when I watched May on Marr she skipped the question which is not the same as what you claim.

I note you used then the May tactic about your own sneering. And I
think evasion is a lie of omission about something being a problem.





Given this is the situation after 7 years of the Tories being in govt, and given that this was an unnecessary election, I won't hold my breath on a policy to address this being in the manifesto. Worse, it's unclear from the statements made so far that any such manifesto is intended to have any substantive policies in it.

floo

  • Guest
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #289 on: May 02, 2017, 01:57:01 PM »
Diane Abbott, random number generator


http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/

She really screwed up this morning, that won't have done Labour much good.

SusanDoris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8265
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #290 on: May 02, 2017, 05:07:39 PM »
I just listened!!! Ouch!!
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17587
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #291 on: May 02, 2017, 05:21:15 PM »

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32502
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #292 on: May 02, 2017, 08:10:38 PM »
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12485
    • Preloved Ads
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #293 on: May 03, 2017, 09:41:17 AM »
I note you used then the May tactic about your own sneering. And I
think evasion is a lie of omission about something being a problem.

Which I don't necessarily disagree with still doesn't excuse misrepresentation.


Quote
Given this is the situation after 7 years of the Tories being in govt, and given that this was an unnecessary election, I won't hold my breath on a policy to address this being in the manifesto. Worse, it's unclear from the statements made so far that any such manifesto is intended to have any substantive policies in it.

Yes I think the Tories feel safe given the decline of Labour which has been aided by rise of the SNP.

I do feel that I have little options in this election I'm naturally inclined towards LibDems but at odds with them over Brexit, Labour is a big mess.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #294 on: May 03, 2017, 10:01:24 AM »
Which I don't necessarily disagree with still doesn't excuse misrepresentation.


Yes I think the Tories feel safe given the decline of Labour which has been aided by rise of the SNP.

I do feel that I have little options in this election I'm naturally inclined towards LibDems but at odds with them over Brexit, Labour is a big mess.
What misrepresentation?


You issue with the Lib Dems just illustrates what a nonsense the election is, and why the Tories are calling it. Self interest with as soupçon of avoiding losing their majority due to the CPS.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11079
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #296 on: May 03, 2017, 11:12:03 AM »
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64339
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #297 on: May 03, 2017, 11:15:02 AM »
Not in the least.

(one of my favourite political blogs btw)
I had been following the issue via Twitter from Roger Mullin, but thought it needed a summary!

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5812
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #298 on: May 03, 2017, 03:34:59 PM »
An interesting graphic illustration of the NHS crisis ..... http://tinyurl.com/mesuzuh

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17730
Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #299 on: May 03, 2017, 04:35:53 PM »
May going on the warpath about the EU - will probably work well with the Brexit faithful.   I suppose EU will say that they were flabbergasted about how little she knew about the EU, and well, anything really.    The main thing for her is for the Tories to win. 
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!