UK General Election 2017

[ProfessorDavey]

why is it that you have a habit about asking what about something irrelevant? You need to control your use of the tu quoque.

Indeed - why on earth does he think it relevant to bring up Corbyn and the IRA when we are discussing the social care plans in the Tory manifesto.

We may well disagree with Corbyn on the IRA, but it is entirely irrelevant to the current discussion on social care.

[jakswan]

Just found some data on this:

About 17% of people who die are in care homes at time of death - so the vast majority aren't.

I'm assuming from your stat and this:-
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/14/dementia-and-alzheimers-leading-cause-of-death-england-and-wales

That actually the majority of people do end up in a care home that suffer from dementia.

I don't get why Labour are not going ballistic about the cap. The cap that May wants to introduce favours those that are very rich.

But more tellingly from a political perspective when asked where people wanted to be when they died, 63% said 'at home', 28% wanted to die in a hospice, 8% in hospital and just 1% wanted to die in a care home. Yes, that's right, just 1%. People do not want to go into a home at the end of their lives - that's why this is so toxic - that desire to be able to stay in your own home at the end of your days in now dependent on that home, bit by bit, being given away. Currently that isn't the case. Surely you can see why this is a huge issue - people's desire's for the future are hugely important and any government that makes changes which makes it more difficult to attain that desire is going to find it politically tough.

I agree its toxic and its been handled terribly, we could end up with comrade Corbyn.

Trump in the US and Corbyn here, we will all be fucked.

[jakswan]

Indeed - why on earth does he think it relevant to bring up Corbyn and the IRA when we are discussing the social care plans in the Tory manifesto.

We may well disagree with Corbyn on the IRA, but it is entirely irrelevant to the current discussion on social care.

If its not May we get Corbyn, I still don't know how to vote. It won't be Labour, I'm not actually that keen on May but what else is there.

[Nearly Sane]

If its not May we get Corbyn, I still don't know how to vote. It won't be Labour, I'm not actually that keen on May but what else is there.

You are confused, you aren't voting for a PM.

[ProfessorDavey]

If its not May we get Corbyn, I still don't know how to vote. It won't be Labour, I'm not actually that keen on May but what else is there.

That is an entirely different point. We are discussing the Tories plans on social care.

[wigginhall]

Another issue is to do with the value of your home, if this is being used to pay for care.   Presumably, this will be done via equity release, or really, re-mortgaging.   This is going to be difficult for old/sick people, isn't it?   I suppose many of them will have relatives helping.   How much will the insurance companies siphon off?   I'm not surprised that old people feel nervous about all of this. 

[Harrowby Hall]

I don't think that any of the teenage policy wonks that dreamt this one up have thought that far.

The practical way of doing it would be for the local authority to assume ownership of the house, sell it, and give the change to the dead person's beneficiaries,

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think that any of the teenage policy wonks that dreamt this one up have thought that far.

The practical way of doing it would be for the local authority to assume ownership of the house, sell it, and give the change to the dead person's beneficiaries,

Actually they had, they were going to use private companies to release the equity.

[wigginhall]

I don't think that any of the teenage policy wonks that dreamt this one up have thought that far.

The practical way of doing it would be for the local authority to assume ownership of the house, sell it, and give the change to the dead person's beneficiaries,

Well, I can see that for residential care, you just sell your house, and use the money, until it's all gone, except £100, 000.  But if you are getting home care, you still need to pay for it.   I suppose an alternative is that the state pays for the home care, and then when you die, takes back the money.   I think this is still going to frighten people.

[Harrowby Hall]

Actually they had, they were going to use private companies to release the equity.

But the private companies can't "release equity" on the demand of a third party, can they? They will really be giving a loan to the local authority.

The properties will then have to be sold in order to reimburse the private companies. At some point in the process the local authorities are going to have to acquire ownership rights of some kind. Either that or wait until the demented owner dies and then compulsorily take ownership of the property and sell it. This way they would recover their own expenditure (less £100,000) and give whatever is left over to the inheritors.

[jakswan]

You are confused, you aren't voting for a PM.

On what basis you decide to vote is very much upto the voter.

[Harrowby Hall]

On what basis you decide to vote is very much upto the voter.

Constitutionally, NS is correct. What has happened to your vote if the electors of Maidenhead reject Theresa May?

[jeremyp]

In which case you can use the existing inheritance tax mechanism.

I don't see what's wrong with asking people who can afford their upkeep to pay for their upkeep.

But the reality is that how much you are able to pass on is dependent on the nature of your ailments in later life and that seems inherently unfair.

If you're actually ill, that's another matter. We have - or should have - the NHS for that.

Battle dementia for 15 years and you care will be considered social rather than medical care and you may end up only being able to pass on £100k, with the government taking the balancing half a million.

So the issue is that dementia is a second class disease for some reason. Surely the right thing to do is recognise that dementia sufferers need healthcare from the NHS just as much as cancer sufferers - more so thinking about the few cases I've been close to.

I really don't get this obsession with passing money on to your children. If the money you save all your working life is not to support you in your old age, what is it for? That's exactly what it is for.

This just seems unfair to me. At least with inheritance tax all are treated equally.

Inheritance tax is a real problem. Apart from the fact that it is raised on income that has already been taxed once, it can cause real problems if the estate has a large portfolio of assets than cannot be easily liquidated.

[Nearly Sane]

And so the threat level has been raised, and as I sit dipping my churros into my hot chocolate, I look out at a square with armed soldiers patrolling, which obviously makes me feel very safe. The tragic murders in Manchester are nothing new. There is a never ending parade of innocents, murdered by terrorists or states, it oftentimes being hard to tell the difference. The arms we sold to Saudi Arabia to murder people in Yemen are certainly having the effect of making us safer as Theresa May stated, aren't they? I think if you are going to indulge in a bit of Realpolitik, you should at the very least be good at it.

[Aruntraveller]

Yes NS - Russell Brand said something interesting yesterday:

"At times like this to be loving takes incredible strength. As that peculiar and great son of Manchester, Morrissey said “It’s easy to laugh, it’s easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind.”

"Observe how this event is reported. Observe how it is used. Stay true to love and try to be strong and kind."

My bold.

[Nearly Sane]

Indeed, trentvoyager, I don't know if you have seen the Daily Mail cartoon, or the piece that the Sun ran yesterday but  it is fairly clear that before dead were numbered, never mind named, that the supposed suspension of campaigning was being ignored so the narrative of Corbyn wants your kids murdered could be touted.


You look at the pictures of the so far named dead, and despair at the handwringing obsequies churned out by politicians who order bombings that kill children just as young, just as innocent, murdered in our name for our cause (whatever that is).

[wigginhall]

Yes, there won't be a word in the press about aggressive militarism, as practised in the West, and which produces blowback.   It's all Corbyn's fault.   Well, the election is done and dusted now, May's car crash over social care will be forgotten, and she will preen herself outside Downing St.   

[Nearly Sane]

I don't really care about the idea that the actions of some murdering idiot in Manchester were somehow caused by a policy of murdering people we don't like. There's a sort of reverse You started It in it that seems just as childish. I don't want to stop people murdering in my name because it might cause someone to murder people here, I just want them to stop murdering people.

[JP]

Aggressive western militarism has nothing to do with the west though. I have heard time and time again, in fact every time there is a incident like that one in Manchester, that we stand for love, tolerance, togetherness, understanding. We use such things a poetry to send a message to those who seek to harm us. Militarism can not possibly be driven by these principles.

[jakswan]

Someone tweeted when these things happen the right get angry at the terrorists and the left get angry at the right.

[Nearly Sane]

Someone tweeted when these things happen the right get angry at the terrorists and the left get angry at the right.

I know tweets are by their nature simplistic but that's a lot of stupid to pack into 140 characters.  It also manages to disprove itself.

[Robbie]

I don't really care about the idea that the actions of some murdering idiot in Manchester were somehow caused by a policy of murdering people we don't like. There's a sort of reverse You started It in it that seems just as childish. I don't want to stop people murdering in my name because it might cause someone to murder people here, I just want them to stop murdering people.

Well said.

[Nearly Sane]

I will be voting in the only constituency to have an all female list of candidates



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40011733

[Nearly Sane]

Not often I agree with Paul Nuttall but here I do. The 'suspension' of campaigning is a fiction anyway with the MSM coverage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40026416

[wigginhall]

Bizarre story about US intelligence leaking the name of the terrorist to the press.   Who needs enemies, etc.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/manchester-attack-us-leaks_us_592488f1e4b00c8df29f5622