UK General Election 2017

[jakswan]

Fair enough. Though i found the tweet groaningly tedious

Fair enough.

[Nearly Sane]

Don't know how many times I've told you, she ain't left mate.

In the broad brush of 'left' she is.

[ProfessorDavey]

No it was merely badly phrased. The original tweet I thought was merely interesting.

In what way was it interesting?

You either think it is complete rubbish (and therefore interesting that someone could think that), or that somehow there is something in it that you agree with and therefore you find it interesting.

[Rhiannon]

Bizarre story about US intelligence leaking the name of the terrorist to the press.   Who needs enemies, etc.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/manchester-attack-us-leaks_us_592488f1e4b00c8df29f5622

I know. Words fail. Wtf is happening in Washington?

[ProfessorDavey]

Fair enough. Though i found the tweet groaningly tedious

I found that tweet to be completely the reverse of what I am seeing.

[Nearly Sane]

I found that tweet to be completely the reverse of what I am seeing.

It was the oposite of itself but i have seen a fair amount of attacking the right. Indeed, i have done my fair share, see earlier posts. I am unconvinced that it is avoidable in the discussion of what happens next.

[ProfessorDavey]

Unfortunate lack of use of double negative, I meant to say they have all been unequivocal, well apart from the one I linked to who isn't a senior anyway.

Fair enough - but that's one hell of an error.

And to note - increasingly recently you've been coming over as a bit of a right wing troll - which is probably why I and others thought you actually meant what you had written, rather than being perplexed and checking whether it was what you actually meant to say.

[wigginhall]

Was it May who cut police numbers by quite a large amount?  Oops, sorry, playing politics with Manchester now.

[Nearly Sane]

Fair enough - but that's one hell of an error.

And to note - increasingly recently you've been coming over as a bit of a right wing troll - which is probably why I and others thought you actually meant what you had written, rather than being perplexed and checking whether it was what you actually meant to say.

Errmm much as I disagree with jakswan, I don't think he comes across as a right wing troll.

[Nearly Sane]

Was it May who cut police numbers by quite a large amount?  Oops, sorry, playing politics with Manchester now.

Yes, I don't see how you can have a useful discussion about what we should do without being open to the charge. I think sometimes people who say other's are playing politics, may actually be playing politics.

[ProfessorDavey]

Errmm much as I disagree with jakswan, I don't think he comes across as a right wing troll.

He's getting there - on the spectrum so to speak - hence 'increasingly recently you've been coming over as a bit of a right wing troll'.

[Nearly Sane]

He's getting there - on the spectrum so to speak - hence 'increasingly recently you've been coming over as a bit of a right wing troll'.

Isn't that like coming across as a bit pregnant? I don't see any troll like posting from jakswan.

[ProfessorDavey]

Isn't that like coming across as a bit pregnant? I don't see any troll like posting from jakswan.

No I don't think so - you aren't just troll or not-troll, there are gradations.

'The vice-chair of Stroud Labour Party has tweeted that the Manchester terror attack is “wonderful timing for Theresa May“.'

'Will Corbyn be condemning the IRA.' - in reply to a post about Tory social care proposals.

'By the way what is the policy of Labour on Trident, they don't sound very convincing, maybe they are still waiting for Diane to do the Maths.' - in reply to a post about Tory social care proposals.

'Plenty in the Labour manifesto about raising taxes that will damage the economy, nationalisation, nothing about benefit cuts, and a leader who seems unable to condemn IRA bombings.' - in reply to a post about Tory social care proposals.

'Getting my popcorn ready for the post election Labour bloodbath, suspect JC isn't going to resign, the centre-left will be openly hostile'

'It irks the sneering Labour fanboys.'

All rather right wing troll-ish.

[Nearly Sane]

No I don't think so - you aren't just troll or not-troll, there are gradations.

'The vice-chair of Stroud Labour Party has tweeted that the Manchester terror attack is “wonderful timing for Theresa May“.'

'Will Corbyn be condemning the IRA.' - in reply to a post about Tory social care proposals.

'By the way what is the policy of Labour on Trident, they don't sound very convincing, maybe they are still waiting for Diane to do the Maths.' - in reply to a post about Tory social care proposals.

'Plenty in the Labour manifesto about raising taxes that will damage the economy, nationalisation, nothing about benefit cuts, and a leader who seems unable to condemn IRA bombings.' - in reply to a post about Tory social care proposals.

'Getting my popcorn ready for the post election Labour bloodbath, suspect JC isn't going to resign, the centre-left will be openly hostile'

'It irks the sneering Labour fanboys.'

All rather right wing troll-ish.

Then I don't see troll in the way you do. I think anyone has the chance to be sarcastic without being called a troll, and the first statement is merely one of fact.

Gradations of trollosity - who knew?

[ProfessorDavey]

Gradations of trollosity - who knew?

Oh all flavours and varieties exist.

[jakswan]

And to note - increasingly recently you've been coming over as a bit of a right wing troll - which is probably why I and others thought you actually meant what you had written, rather than being perplexed and checking whether it was what you actually meant to say.

Really a right wing troll?

So I disagree with you I must be a troll right?

I think you have been drinking the Corbyn kool aid and forgotten where the middle is.

The social care policy as it was I thought was extremely progressive, she has changed it to favour the richest. Her position on fox hunting makes me want to throw up.

No once Brexit is done I'm rejoining the LibDems thanks.

[wigginhall]

I think there are people who turn it on and off - I mean, their trolling.   I've met quite a few, I don't know about jakswan.  I suppose you recognize trolling as the attempt to emotionally upset people, or wind them up, rather than communicate an idea?  Is that it? 

[Nearly Sane]

I think there are people who turn it on and off - I mean, their trolling.   I've met quite a few, I don't know about jakswan.  I suppose you recognize trolling as the attempt to emotionally upset people, or wind them up, rather than communicate an idea?  Is that it?

I don't see any of the cited posts from jakswan as attempts to upset people emotionally. This seems similar to the idea of not making political capital out of Manchester, any opinion could be argued to be making political capital or trolling

[ProfessorDavey]

Really a right wing troll?

That is increasingly how you come across to me, and it does you no favours.

So I disagree with you I must be a troll right?

Nope - there are plenty of people who disagree with me here - that doesn't mean they come across as a bit of a right wing troll.

I think you have been drinking the Corbyn kool aid and forgotten where the middle is.

There you go again. And I think you are well aware that I was a Labour party member, that I voted for everyone else but him in the first leadership election, and I left the party because of his leadership.

The social care policy as it was I thought was extremely progressive, she has changed it to favour the richest.

Then why were you unable to have a reasoned discussion about the Tory policy without resorting to completely irrelevant comments about Corbyn:

'Will Corbyn be condemning the IRA.'

'By the way what is the policy of Labour on Trident, they don't sound very convincing, maybe they are still waiting for Diane to do the Maths.'

'Plenty in the Labour manifesto about raising taxes that will damage the economy, nationalisation, nothing about benefit cuts, and a leader who seems unable to condemn IRA bombings.'

Classic troll-ism.

Her position on fox hunting makes me want to throw up.

Good - but that doesn't absolve you from your other comments.

No once Brexit is done I'm rejoining the LibDems thanks.

Really - perhaps they won't have you, given your views on Brexit.

[wigginhall]

I don't see any of the cited posts from jakswan as attempts to upset people emotionally. This seems similar to the idea of not making political capital out of Manchester, any opinion could be argued to be making political capital or trolling

I'm not all that sure about it.   Sarcasm is a case in point,  as I think you said, as it can wind people up, but it's not trolling.    I recognize it when I see it, like I recognize  a right-wing bitch!  Ha ha ha.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm not all that sure about it.   Sarcasm is a case in point,  as I think you said, as it can wind people up, but it's not trolling.    I recognize it when I see it, like I recognize  a right-wing bitch!  Ha ha ha.

Where is the sarcasm in saying:

'Will Corbyn be condemning the IRA.'

In response to points about Tory social care policy. There isn't any - merely an attempt to irritate by going off topic to make a point based on a perceived left wing political stance by the poster (which is of course misplace, if he thinks I'm a supporter of Corbyn).

[Nearly Sane]

I'm not all that sure about it.   Sarcasm is a case in point,  as I think you said, as it can wind people up, but it's not trolling.    I recognize it when I see it, like I recognize  a right-wing bitch!  Ha ha ha.

While definitions are not prescriptive, it might be useful to look at what trolling is stated to be:
'In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusement. '


That seems pretty on point to me, and seems to not describe jakswan's posting at all

[Nearly Sane]

Where is the sarcasm in saying:

'Will Corbyn be condemning the IRA.'

In response to points about Tory social care policy. There isn't any - merely an attempt to irritate by going off topic to make a point based on a perceived left wing political stance by the poster (which is of course misplace, if he thinks I'm a supporter of Corbyn).

it's an irrelevant tu quoque and a bad argument. Still don't see how it is trolling though.

[wigginhall]

Irrelevant replies can be used to troll, i.e. to irritate people or wind them up.  Usually it repeats quite a lot.   I don't know jakswan's posts enough.  In the definition above, it comes under 'extraneous'. 

[jakswan]

That is increasingly how you come across to me, and it does you no favours.

A troll is someone who purely says things to wind others up.

Nope - there are plenty of people who disagree with me here - that doesn't mean they come across as a bit of a right wing troll.

Is it only those you perceive as being right wing that are the trolls then?

There you go again. And I think you are well aware that I was a Labour party member, that I voted for everyone else but him in the first leadership election, and I left the party because of his leadership.

Though strangely not recently?

Then why were you unable to have a reasoned discussion about the Tory policy without resorting to completely irrelevant comments about Corbyn:

'Will Corbyn be condemning the IRA.'

'By the way what is the policy of Labour on Trident, they don't sound very convincing, maybe they are still waiting for Diane to do the Maths.'

'Plenty in the Labour manifesto about raising taxes that will damage the economy, nationalisation, nothing about benefit cuts, and a leader who seems unable to condemn IRA bombings.'

The reason I'm voting is to select the party with what I consider to be the best leader, its Corbyn or May.

Classic troll-ism.

Good grief, a troll is 'One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

I know you disagree with me, you might not like me but if you do have to lower yourself to hurling insults at least make them accurate.

Really - perhaps they won't have you, given your views on Brexit.

One great thing about the LibDems they are not so tribal.

Good - but that doesn't absolve you from your other comments.

You can't absolve me from anything.