UK General Election 2017

[jakswan]

You mean the long posts? I am on a mobile just now so hadn't replied because it would be time consuming and difficult on a mobile. Why would that be relevant to this anyway?


As to spinning, are you actually saying that spin doctors are telling what they see as the trith? I wouldn't, which is why I don't read spinning as equalling expressing your opinion.

Further no matter what we call it, I can see no way of having a discussion of whether an opinion might be correct without referring to what was written. I can see nothing in the links you posted which indicate the illness is a lie for the reasons I have explained. What do you think is supportive of your viewpoint?

My viewpoint is that I'm not 100% convinced that Abbott is actually ill, it is alleged that Dianne Abbott wrote:-

"I am worried about telling untruths about my health which are easily disproved."

Why would you be worried about telling untruths if you were telling truths?

[Nearly Sane]

Some of these are great


https://www.buzzfeed.com/hilarywardle/theresa-may-or-basshunter?utm_term=.qtKYkAOKvm#.kho73NojdO

[jakswan]

And the alternative to what has happened seems to be what I wrote about which is surely worse for them. If you ate saying they were fucked from the get go, I agree but then May wanted everyone to be like that

The centrists were fucked from the get go in terms of winning any power, they were not fucked in getting rid of JC. A 'not fully' supportive interviews on Corbyn's corp tax plans from a few centrists could have hung him out to dry and put them in a position to get rid post election.

[Nearly Sane]

My viewpoint is that I'm not 100% convinced that Abbott is actually ill, it is alleged that Dianne Abbott wrote:-

"I am worried about telling untruths about my health which are easily disproved."

Why would you be worried about telling untruths if you were telling truths?

Ah the old strawman that when I asked someone to justify their idea that Abbott was lying about illness that the position is person who says she is lying is less than 100% sure she is well, person who asks them to justify their position is saying 100% Abbott is telling the truth.

The quote you have out of context underlines that she doesn't want to tell an untruth about her health. In the context where a prank email is sent about being unwell for yesterday's missed interview (as opposed to the overall claim for today that she is linger term unwell) then it underlines that she doesn't want to lie and is saying it shouldn't happen.

[Nearly Sane]

The centrists were fucked from the get go in terms of winning any power, they were not fucked in getting rid of JC. A 'not fully' supportive interviews on Corbyn's corp tax plans from a few centrists could have hung him out to dry and put them in a position to get rid post election.

Which would only have happened by causing a complete collapse in the Labour Party as I outlined, so how would that be a win?

[floo]

Ah the old strawman that when I asked someone to justify their idea that Abbott was lying about illness that the position is person who says she is lying is less than 100% sure she is well, person who asks them to justify their position is saying 100% Abbott is telling the truth.

The quote you have out of context underlines that she doesn't want to tell an untruth about her health. In the context where a prank email is sent about being unwell for yesterday's missed interview (as opposed to the overall claim for today that she is linger term unwell) then it underlines that she doesn't want to lie and is saying it shouldn't happen.

Whilst Abbott might have stood down because she is genuinely ill, but due to her recent screw ups it could be her 'illness' is a face saving exercise.

[Robbie]

I didn't mean to imply she wasn't ill NS!

Looking at my post I wish had said "before she becomes more ill with stress". I've no doubt she is ill, we don't know what the problem is but stress can cause all sorts of physical illnesses & what she has been doing recently can only pile it on. So I think she is very wise to step down now rather than collapse in a few weeks.

I'm a great fan of Diane Abbott, always have been, but she's only human.

But we don't know if it is stress.   That is another guess.   

You're quite right that we don't what is wrong with Diane Abbott, Wigginhall, it's her business & we may never know, but she doesn't strike me as the faking type.

A few weeks ago I saw her on television & she seemed different, didn't look or seem well to me. I could be wrong about that but the news that she is stepping down from campaigning didn't surprise me. Whatever her medical problem is, now is the time for her to take care of herself (for some reason I'd always thought she was about my age but she is actually 63& there's no doubt she's a big girl).

Campaigning for a general election must be stressful and any medical condition e.g. high blood pressure, heart problems, diabetes, will be exacerbated by that.

So all i'm going to say now aboout Diane Abbott is I hope she feels better soon & wish her all the best.
___________________________________________________________________

Mrs May is going to rip up parts of the Human Rights Act! This is different to what I read lunch time, it's more specific, concerning the rights of terrorists so plenty will agree with her. Yet she is cutting police funds!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/06/theresa-may-rip-up-human-rights-laws-impede-new-terror-legislation

[floo]

Even if Abbott gets better, I doubt the woman will have a leading role in the party again.

[Nearly Sane]

Whilst Abbott might have stood down because she is genuinely ill, but due to her recent screw ups it could be her 'illness' is a face saving exercise.

Ah the NPF!

[jakswan]

Which would only have happened by causing a complete collapse in the Labour Party as I outlined, so how would that be a win?

150 seats isn't a complete collapse?

[Nearly Sane]

150 seats isn't a complete collapse?

If they only get 150 seats, there will be a blood bath which will make Game of Thrones look like a knitting circle.

[ProfessorDavey]

150 seats isn't a complete collapse?

The polls would have to be astonishingly wrong for that to happen.

Plugging ICM (the polling organisation with the highest Tory vote share and lowest Labour) into Electoral calculus still gives Labour over 200 seats.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Whilst Abbott might have stood down because she is genuinely ill, but due to her recent screw ups it could be her 'illness' is a face saving exercise.

Or her screw ups could be a result of her illness. My first reaction to her first screw up was that here was a person who should perhaps lose some of the weight,in the kindest sense of course............ some people adapt to overweight, some people aren't affected by it

[wigginhall]

YouGov has 302, 269, 12, 44 - Con, Lab, LibDem, SNP.   I am very skeptical about this, but the divergences are incredible  - Torygraph has 100 Tory maj.

[jakswan]

If they only get 150 seats, there will be a blood bath which will make Game of Thrones look like a knitting circle.

Which is my point, Corbyn would go.

[jakswan]

The polls would have to be astonishingly wrong for that to happen.

Plugging ICM (the polling organisation with the highest Tory vote share and lowest Labour) into Electoral calculus still gives Labour over 200 seats.

I think Labour will get more than 200 seats, read back through the thread.

[floo]

If either of the parties does very badly we can expect a leadership election in the near future, imo.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think Labour will get more than 200 seats, read back through the thread.

Where did I say that you didn't.

All I was doing was pointing out that none of the polling is pointing to Labour on as low a seat total as 150.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Which is my point, Corbyn would go.

I don't think the ''had there been a more centrist labour candidate they might have won'' narrative washes.
Centrist labour after all accepted the narrative the Conservatives wanted them to. Milliband was the candidate they wanted.
Corbyn has established a true labour agenda. Hopefully it will survive into days which will get incredibly bleak for Conservatism for whom, I think, ultimately the road to bringing back complete love for them leads to Boris.

[wigginhall]

I was wondering where right wing Labour stands now.  Of course, it depends.   If Labour do OK, Corbyn stays, then the right wing will presumably have to decide whether to stick or twist.   Maybe they see Starmer as salvation?   But some might just gradually leave.   If Labour crashes, then they will be salivating. 

[Nearly Sane]

Which is my point, Corbyn would go.

And again, yes but as argued it would lead to a blood letting so severe that The Red Wedding would be an overenthusiastic use of roses. How would Labour centrists 'win"?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I was wondering where right wing Labour stands now.  Of course, it depends.   If Labour do OK, Corbyn stays, then the right wing will presumably have to decide whether to stick or twist.   Maybe they see Starmer as salvation?   But some might just gradually leave.   If Labour crashes, then they will be salivating.

Yes I suppose we could expect the GBP to suffer amnesia of the past 7 weeks and vote like it was the 18th April 2017. Kuensberg of the BBC obviously thinks it will be some kind of high point for Theresa and Conservatism and that it's completely unclear whether Corbyn has had any effect outside the Corbynistas.

The Independent has six possible scenarios.

As for the Tories, They are left further in Hock to the right wing newspapers on whom they depend for their supply of votes, and the prospect of how to navigate Shite Brexit and be fighting fit for the end of the political cycle when they will be exhausted and old hat .

[jakswan]

And again, yes but as argued it would lead to a blood letting so severe that The Red Wedding would be an overenthusiastic use of roses. How would Labour centrists 'win"?

Regain control of the leadership.

[Nearly Sane]

Regain control of the leadership.

And if it is the leadership of a destroyed party, that is never going recover, that is a win in what way?

[wigginhall]

ICM poll has 96 Tory majority, which makes the YouGov poll look barmy, and out of step.