Author Topic: UK General Election 2017  (Read 113599 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1000 on: June 08, 2017, 10:02:48 AM »
From Wiki: Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup.

We will have to disagree, I think it is a legitimate position to hold and not a dog whistle, maybe it has the effect of dog whistle but we can't know intent. 


But in the absence of any policies that conflict with human rights legislation why mention it? What is the purpose other than to portray human rights as an issue without any justification? Surely that is the definition of dog whistle?

Quote
No not saying Abbott is doing anything with intent, her sweeping statement lends credence to the view that society is endemically racist.

I remain very confused here at what you ate saying. You have stayed that you think society is racist but noe Abbott is wrong because she describes it as being 'more' racist than you think it is? And somehow how racist society is is known to you, and you then determine whether the way others talk about it is right?

Or are you saying that it's only right to talk about being society being racist to some extent, that extent to be determined by you, even if it is more or less racist?

Or some other position? Because I'm really not getting what you are trying to say.

Aruntraveller

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1001 on: June 08, 2017, 10:08:30 AM »
The betting markets as predictors of elections have taken a massive knock recently.

Up until a couple of years ago (with some justification) it was argued that betting was a much better prediction of elections than the polling. But both brexit and Trump have blown that out of the water. In both cases the polls weren't too far off (a good proportion of referendum polls showing small Leave majority, and virtually all US polls showing a small Clinton majority on national vote share which proved correct). The betting was massively wrong, with 90-ish% probabilities of Remain win and Clinton win even after the polls had closed.

For some bizarre reason I don't understand (but then I don't understand betting anyway) you can get odds in the Daily Mirror on Ladbrokes of 20/1 that Theresa May will be PM after the election and on Coral 20/1 that the Conservatives will win most seats.

That can't be right surely? Or is it just a ruse to get punters to part with their money?

You can probably tell I don't gamble.

It is the only puritan streak I have in me!
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1002 on: June 08, 2017, 10:08:44 AM »
Apart from anything else this covers why being an MP is often a deeply shite job


https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:15:07 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1003 on: June 08, 2017, 10:14:09 AM »
For some bizarre reason I don't understand (but then I don't understand betting anyway) you can get odds in the Daily Mirror on Ladbrokes of 20/1 that Theresa May will be PM after the election and on Coral 20/1 that the Conservatives will win most seats.

That can't be right surely? Or is it just a ruse to get punters to part with their money?

You can probably tell I don't gamble.

It is the only puritan streak I have in me!
They may well be introductory offers but are you sure the odds aren't being shown as 1/20 not 20/1? I.e. that it is 20 to 1 on and that for every 20 pounds ypu bet you will get that and a whole 1 pound back?

Aruntraveller

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1004 on: June 08, 2017, 10:17:46 AM »
They may well be introductory offers but are you sure the odds aren't being shown as 1/20 not 20/1? I.e. that it is 20 to 1 on and that for every 20 pounds ypu bet you will get that and a whole 1 pound back?

Looking closer it is for new customers, yes. But it is definitely 20/1.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jakswan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1005 on: June 08, 2017, 10:36:07 AM »
The betting markets as predictors of elections have taken a massive knock recently.

Up until a couple of years ago (with some justification) it was argued that betting was a much better prediction of elections than the polling. But both brexit and Trump have blown that out of the water. In both cases the polls weren't too far off (a good proportion of referendum polls showing small Leave majority, and virtually all US polls showing a small Clinton majority on national vote share which proved correct). The betting was massively wrong, with 90-ish% probabilities of Remain win and Clinton win even after the polls had closed.

I bet on Brexit and sadly I bet on Trump, not that I wanted Trump to win.

Actually bet on there being a 2017 election as well, seem to recall people on here telling me it was not going to happen.  ☺

I'm well aware of what betting markets are.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1006 on: June 08, 2017, 10:52:42 AM »
Quote
Actually bet on there being a 2017 election as well, seem to recall people on here telling me it was not going to happen.  ☺

Probably because we were lied to by the Prime Minister.  And yet you seem to be willing to put your trust in a liar. Go figure.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jakswan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1007 on: June 08, 2017, 10:55:42 AM »
You expect better than me to note that you voted to hound people to death because if illness and the rapeclause? Is that because you expected me not to remind you that you voted to hound people to death because of illness and the rapeclause?
I note as well that you think arming the Saudis to bomb hospitals, and the Saudis link to IS is not evidence?

I expected better of you than to vote to hound people to death because of illness, and for the rapeclause, and to arm the Saudis who arm IS.

We all vote for different reasons, where we vote does not mean we vote for every issue the party stands for.

Quite happy to debate with you on any issue. You will have to accept that had you wished me to not vote Tory then you should have defended Corbyn better.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1008 on: June 08, 2017, 11:06:53 AM »
We all vote for different reasons, where we vote does not mean we vote for every issue the party stands for.

Quite happy to debate with you on any issue. You will have to accept that had you wished me to not vote Tory then you should have defended Corbyn better.

Except when you vote for that party and they become govt you are voting for those policies. You have voted in favour of hounding people to death because of illness,  you have voted in favour of the rapeclause, you have voted to sell arms to Saudi Arabia to bomb hospitals, and to support IS. It's your choice to have supported those things?

And since I didn't tell you to vote for Corbyn I have no idea what you are trying to say in  your last sentence.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:10:26 AM by Nearly Sane »

Aruntraveller

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1009 on: June 08, 2017, 11:08:00 AM »
We all vote for different reasons, where we vote does not mean we vote for every issue the party stands for.

Quite happy to debate with you on any issue. You will have to accept that had you wished me to not vote Tory then you should have defended Corbyn better.

Still you are condoning fox hunting, further destabilization of the NHS, further harassment of disabled, sick and mentally ill people, further tax breaks for big corporations. I can see your true liberal democrat credentials shining through.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jakswan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1010 on: June 08, 2017, 11:12:50 AM »
Except when you voye for that party and they become govt you are voting for those policies. You have voted in favour of hounding people to death because of illness,  you have voted in favour of the rapeclause, you have voted to sell arms to Saudi Arabia to bomb hospitals, and to support IS. It's your choice to have supported those things?

And since I didn't tell you to vote for Corbyn I have no idea what you are trying to say in  your last sentence.

In a democracy if you want someone to vote in a certain direction then you should advocate for that direction.

Maybe you are happier demonising those which you disagree.

Gotta keep that chip on the shoulder eh?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1011 on: June 08, 2017, 11:15:29 AM »
In a democracy if you want someone to vote in a certain direction then you should advocate for that direction.

Maybe you are happier demonising those which you disagree.

Gotta keep that chip on the shoulder eh?

Ah so pointing out what you have voted for is having a chip on my shoulder! You really do struggle to stop personalising things rather than accept that you voted for hounding people to death because of illness, the rapeclause and selling arms to Saudi Arabia who arm IS.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:20:21 AM by Nearly Sane »

floo

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1012 on: June 08, 2017, 11:16:15 AM »
I have come across people who can't be bothered to vote as their it won't make any difference to the result in their constituency. However, they whinge when the party they don't support gets in, how daft is that? ::)

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1013 on: June 08, 2017, 11:19:38 AM »
I have come across people who can't be bothered to vote as their it won't make any difference to the result in their constituency. However, they whinge when the party they don't support gets in, how daft is that? ::)
Well if it won't make a difference, then it won't make a difference. Far better to have PR rather than rotten boroughs

jakswan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1014 on: June 08, 2017, 11:24:27 AM »
Ah so pointing out what you have voted for is having a chip on my shoulder! You really do struggle to stop personalising things rather than accept that you voted for hounding people to death because of illness, the rapeclause and selling arms to Saudi Arabia who arm IS.

I long for a better standard of debate, any other good forums that people frequent?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1015 on: June 08, 2017, 11:28:09 AM »
I long for a better standard of debate, any other good forums that people frequent?
Is it because you have voted for hounding people to death who are ill, and the rapeclause, and selling arms to Saudi Arabia who support IS, that you are not going to address that but rather comment on the debate?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:32:22 AM by Nearly Sane »

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1016 on: June 08, 2017, 11:40:06 AM »
Hi all

FTR I shall shortly go the polling station, to vote for the Lib Dems, though more as a gesture of defiance, than in hope.


ProfessorDavey

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1017 on: June 08, 2017, 12:23:56 PM »
You will have to accept that had you wished me to not vote Tory then you should have defended Corbyn better.
Reading your posts over the past few weeks it has been abundantly clear that you had no intention of voting other than Tory.

You complain at lack of debate, yet mostly all we have had from you are anti-Corbyn sound-bites, with a refusal to even engage in debate on the Tories.

floo

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1018 on: June 08, 2017, 12:26:47 PM »
I long for a better standard of debate, any other good forums that people frequent?

I am on several others, but this one seems to be the best.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1019 on: June 08, 2017, 12:32:03 PM »
I am on several others, but this one seems to be the best.
I wouldn't worry, Floo, jakswan just seems to want a board where no one points out that he voted to hound people to death because they are ill, the rapeclause, and to sell arms to Saudi Arabia who support IS.

floo

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1020 on: June 08, 2017, 12:32:15 PM »
It seems daft that we don't vote on a Sunday, like other countries appear to do. Two of the primary schools in our area are closed today as they are being used as polling booths. This is unfair to working parents who have only just got the little darlings back to school again after half term.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1021 on: June 08, 2017, 01:10:48 PM »
A para I posted elsewhere

Good luck to my friends standing to be MPs today, all of you, every single one really, even Bill the UKIP,, I mean I obviously don't want you to win Bill the UKIP, after all this is a friendship based on honesty if nothing else! And honestly Bill? The UKIP? But no, all of you, standing for MPs and when I remember you sometimes, well frequently, well most of the time, you couldn't stand or spell MP, or pretty much any thing. But, that's all fine now, you have matured and put childish things behind you, apart from Bunsen Bear as the security staff at City know. You are there to represent us which you will do magnificently I am sure - none of that delegating though, we are not that sort of a democracy! So if you are elected, be proud but not too proud, not like that time you won the pub quiz in The Rock,. Won? Won? Were part of winning team, mostly on my answers, or the wee boy John who ended up in our team accidentally but knew all the British birds plumages reversed in the hand in sheet round and off you went dancing round the whole pub singing 'Simply the Best!' In a mixed but borderline my father's dentists was Jim Craig pub!!! But no, even with that and those other blemishes which we don't mention often, well that often, well not every fricckin second, like the frisbee, the piano and the black black oil, good luck!

jakswan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1022 on: June 08, 2017, 03:32:43 PM »
Is it because you have voted for hounding people to death who are ill, and the rapeclause, and selling arms to Saudi Arabia who support IS, that you are not going to address that but rather comment on the debate?

Its something to do with you thinking that old chum. :)
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

SusanDoris

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1023 on: June 08, 2017, 03:37:36 PM »
I long for a better standard of debate, any other good forums that people frequent?
Have you ever given IS (International Skeptics) a look? (I'm SusanB-M1 there.)
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

jakswan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #1024 on: June 08, 2017, 03:53:26 PM »
Reading your posts over the past few weeks it has been abundantly clear that you had no intention of voting other than Tory.

You complain at lack of debate, yet mostly all we have had from you are anti-Corbyn sound-bites, with a refusal to even engage in debate on the Tories.

When May declared a free vote on fox hunting I was wobbling, when she introduced a cap on social care, I was a don't know. (btw the centre-left Polly Toynbee likes May's social care policy, or did before the cap).

In the end I felt Corp Tax increases represented a double risk, 1) to economy 2) they would raise anything like revenue predicted in Labour manifesto.

I have expressed those views and didn't find your counters convincing but do credit with you actually making those arguments, they did make me think and were fairly made.

I have voted for all parties LibDems / Labour / Tory in the past and certainly no fanboy of the Tories. If a centrist was standing against May I think she would have lost, certainly I would have voted that way.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire