UK General Election 2017

[floo]

I didn't vote conservative, but if I had, I would have been voting for her and her apparent strong will, thinking she had what it took to negotiate for this country.

Somehow getting the vote and then sneaking a relative unknown person in to be PM isn't a good move, imo.

Not exactly going to make people feel the country is stable.

At least with Theresa May, you know what you are getting.

People do vote according who is in charge, I've heard an awful lot of people in the past say they would have voted for labour, had the other milliband brother got in.

It's all about perceptions I suppose.

We didn't expect a hung Parliament with May trying to cobble together an alliance with the DUP to try to put right her major screw up!

[Gordon]

I didn't vote conservative, but if I had, I would have been voting for her and her apparent strong will, thinking she had what it took to negotiate for this country.

You can only vote for someone on your ballot paper.

Somehow getting the vote and then sneaking a relative unknown person in to be PM isn't a good move, imo.

May became PM solely on the votes of Tory MPs when Cameron resigned.

Not exactly going to make people feel the country is stable.

So the country is 'stable' when the Tories are dependent on the votes of a bunch of bigoted homophobes: really?

At least with Theresa May, you know what you are getting.

True: an incompetent with zero leadership abilities.

[Anchorman]

One wonders if the Queen's Speech might be July 12th?

Well, the neanderthals in sashes have got their agenda even if May hasn't.....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/orange-order-portadown-northern-ireland-dup-use-banned-drumcree-march-negotiations-with-theresa-may-a7785026.html

[Aruntraveller]

To add to the meaningless mantras we now have:

'I got us into this mess, I'll get us out'

For pity's sake woman just go, Now.

'We've already said ‘Goodbye’.
Since you've got to go
 Oh you had better go now.
 Go now. Go now. Go now'

[jakswan]

Indeed you are - I note you have still failed to provide one iota of evidence that the DUP manifesto committed them to withdrawal from the single market.
We will see what? Anything that happens in the future wouldn't prove or disprove whether the DUP committed to withdraw from the single market on the basis that the DUP stood on their manifesto in the election and that election is over.

Just so you might understand a little better - in 2010 the LibDems had a manifesto commitment to abolish tuition fees. When they went into coalition they made a U-turn and agreed to increase fees massively as part of the coalition deal. Does that mean there was never a manifesto commitment to abolish tuition fees - of course not.

What the DUP might, or might not agree to support (or even abstain on) in a deal with the Tories tells you nothing about manifesto they ran on in the general election - which clearly did not include a commitment to withdraw from the single market.

I can't quickly find a quote maybe later however my conclusion is one shared by the Independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-manifesto-2017-summary-what-does-it-say-policies-tories-conservatives-government-a7781716.html

Like many Brexiteers, the party wants to end the supremacy of the EU’s highest court and argues that Britain should regain the freedom to make global trade deals, which would require leaving the EU’s single market

I listen a lot to Nolan in BBC Ireland I'm sure they have been asked that question directly.

[Bubbles]

You can only vote for someone on your ballot paper.

May became PM solely on the votes of Tory MPs when Cameron resigned.

So the country is 'stable' when the Tories are dependent on the votes of a bunch of bigoted homophobes: really?

True: an incompetent with zero leadership abilities.

Yes you can only literally vote for the person on your ballot paper, but most people vote based on a bigger picture, like the parties manifesto and how good they think the leader is and if they can carry it off.

Yes she did. But some people like her, Margaret thatcher 2, others can't stand her. All influences on people's final vote.

They wanted to boot Jeremy Corbin because they thought he didn't have what it took.

So the leader does have some influence on voting choices, even though their name isn't actually on your ballot paper.

Which particular group is the bigoted homophobes? I wasnt aware the conservatives qualified, my local conservative MP is openly gay, so not sure what you mean by that.

I wouldn't say TM has no leadership qualities. It's just whether you agree with where she is going.

 Don't think she is incompetent either.

If I had a criticism of the Conservative party at all, ATM, it's their rather weird habit of calling a referendum, election etc and shooting themselves in the foot.

Theresa May has carried on, where David Cameron left off.

Scottish referendum = chance of breaking up the UK

Referendum on EU = Brexit

Sudden early election =  hung parliament and forced alignment with dup to hold onto power.

The conservatives keep making the same kind of mistakes.

( I know you agree with Scottish Independence, Gordon, but look past that )

They keep "passing the buck" or "gambling on mistaken ideas", and ending up worse off.

You'd think they would learn, not to do it.

So maybe they are incompetent.

[Aruntraveller]

Don't think she is incompetent either.

Rebuttal approaching:

She made Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary.

No further evidence needed.

[Nearly Sane]

Which particular group is the bigoted homophobes? I wasnt aware the conservatives qualified, my local conservative MP is openly gay, so not sure what you mean by that.

The DUP. And while they are mentioned, using them as the prop up seems to incompetently screw up the Good Friday Agreement

[Bubbles]

Rebuttal approaching:

She made Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary.

No further evidence needed.

Hold onto your hat, if she goes he might be PM.

With his hair, we can look across the pond and go "snap! "

😁

[Bubbles]

The DUP. And while they are mentioned, using them as the prop up seems to incompetently screw up the Good Friday Agreement

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/irish-premier-warns-may-not-to-put-good-friday-agreement-at-risk-35813833.html

 

If you want to have a laugh, look at the link and scroll down to the picture of Theresa May. ( last picture)

Bloody hell! Is that what she calls a necklace?

Where did she get that? Looks more like shackles to me 😁😁😁

LOL!

Hahaha!

A necklace?

Who tugs her chain I wonder?

Bloody hell, she looks like she qualifies for the slave role in roots.

She must buy her necklaces from B & Q

😁😉💐

[Harrowby Hall]

I'm fed up with how the press seem intent of deposing Theresa May. How some MPs are saying " dead woman walking"

It was George Osborne, no longer an MP, who said she was a "dead woman walking".

The conservative voter , that voted for them, voted for her not some other random power hungry person. 
All it means to replace her is that she will be replaced by someone no one actually voted for 

In the UK system people vote for their local candidate. We do not have a presidential form of government. MPs select a party leader and the monarch asks that party leader to form an administration. It is within the gift of MPs to withdraw their support for any particular individual. As I just stated , we do not have a presidential form of government

[jakswan]

The DUP. And while they are mentioned, using them as the prop up seems to incompetently screw up the Good Friday Agreement

Its a fair position to hold, holding it though you will however you will have to accept that if Sinn Fein got involved in Irish Parliment would also screw up the Good Friday Agreement.

You going to tell them?

[Nearly Sane]

Its a fair position to hold, holding it though you will however you will have to accept that if Sinn Fein got involved in Irish Parliment would also screw up the Good Friday Agreement.

You going to tell them?

I don't understand what you mean 'got involved in Irish Parliament'. Sinn Fein are in the Dail, as they stand in the Republic. If you think that is incorrect then you are saying you think the DUP shouldn't take their seats in the UK Parliament?

And just to note, even if I don't doesn't affect that the agreement is evidence of incompetence.

[jakswan]

I don't understand what you mean 'got involved in Irish Parliament'. Sinn Fein are in the Dail, as they stand in the Republic. If you think that is incorrect then you are saying you think the DUP shouldn't take their seats in the UK Parliament?

And just to note, even if I don't doesn't affect that the agreement is evidence of incompetence.

If a Uk party using DUP to prop up a UK government screws up the Good Friday Agreement then it follows that an Irish Party using Sinn Fein would fall foul of the same thing.

[Nearly Sane]

If a Uk party using DUP to prop up a UK government screws up the Good Friday Agreement then it follows that an Irish Party using Sinn Fein would fall foul of the same thing.

Indeed but that's why I asked what you meant by 'involvement in the Irish Parliament'. Obviously by this answer what you meant was Sinn Fein being in coalition or providing confidence and supply with/for a party making up the govt of the Republic. Since this hasn't happened since the GFA (and iirc never before), I am not sure what the point of asking someone to condemn a hypothetical that hasn't happened is to whether the Tories wooing of the DUP here would lead to a breach of the GFA and an indication of incompetence.

[ProfessorDavey]

Interesting results from the first post election poll (from Survation - the polling company that were best at prediction the actual outcome).

Firstly Labour (45%) with a 5 point lead over the Tories (40%), which is interesting but rather irrelevant as there isn't going to be another election straight away.

More interesting is that soft brexit (specifically defined as remaining in the single market and customs union) is now preferred by 47%, a substantial lead over the 36% preferring a hard brexit involving leaving the single market and customs union.

[jakswan]

Indeed but that's why I asked what you meant by 'involvement in the Irish Parliament'. Obviously by this answer what you meant was Sinn Fein being in coalition or providing confidence and supply with/for a party making up the govt of the Republic. Since this hasn't happened since the GFA (and iirc never before), I am not sure what the point of asking someone to condemn a hypothetical that hasn't happened is to whether the Tories wooing of the DUP here would lead to a breach of the GFA and an indication of incompetence.

Its about a principle, not sure Sinn Fein would agree with to being condemmed to never being in office in Ireland.

[jakswan]

Interesting results from the first post election poll (from Survation - the polling company that were best at prediction the actual outcome).

Firstly Labour (45%) with a 5 point lead over the Tories (40%), which is interesting but rather irrelevant as there isn't going to be another election straight away.

More interesting is that soft brexit (specifically defined as remaining in the single market and customs union) is now preferred by 47%, a substantial lead over the 36% preferring a hard brexit involving leaving the single market and customs union.

Maybe electorate should have voted for Non-Brexit parties.

Also interesting the Irish times reaches the same conclusions as I.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dup-trying-to-face-both-directions-at-once-on-brexit-1.3117013

The DUP campaigned actively in favour of Brexit. It has also leaned towards a harder version of Brexit, saying, for example, that it is in favour of the Conservative vision of making “progress on new free trade deals with the rest of the world”.
This implies that the DUP favours leaving the EU Single Market and the Customs Union, which is the part of the Single Market which allows free trade in goods. This is the only way Britain can forge ahead and seek new trade deals on its own behalf with other countries.

[Nearly Sane]

Its about a principle, not sure Sinn Fein would agree with to being condemmed to never being in office in Ireland.

I am not sure they would (and the GFA doesn't rule that out for all time, nor could it) but what has that got to do with whether the current action is leading to a breach of the GFA and us evidence of incompetence?

[Nearly Sane]

I note that John Major thinks the agreement may well be a breach of the GFA and that he thinks the Tories should run a minority administration.

[jakswan]

I am not sure they would (and the GFA doesn't rule that out for all time, nor could it) but what has that got to do with whether the current action is leading to a breach of the GFA and us evidence of incompetence?

Its not a breach, if it was then SF could never be in power in Ireland.

[Nearly Sane]

Its not a breach, if it was then SF could never be in power in Ireland.

Never? No matter if there was a new agreement? Or a united Ireland? You see using the term never here shows your lack of legal understanding. I think that Major would think that currently a Republic govt proposed up by Sinn Fein would cause the same issue, as do I.

[ProfessorDavey]

Also interesting the Irish times reaches the same conclusions as I.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dup-trying-to-face-both-directions-at-once-on-brexit-1.3117013

The DUP campaigned actively in favour of Brexit. It has also leaned towards a harder version of Brexit, saying, for example, that it is in favour of the Conservative vision of making “progress on new free trade deals with the rest of the world”.
This implies that the DUP favours leaving the EU Single Market and the Customs Union, which is the part of the Single Market which allows free trade in goods. This is the only way Britain can forge ahead and seek new trade deals on its own behalf with other countries.

Yet more assertion.

You have clearly been googling desperately to find anything to back up your assertion that the DUP campaigned on leaving the single market and you have clearly failed. The nearest being some journalist saying that something 'implies' that the DUP favoured leaving the EU single market.

I'd rather take the DUP's actual manifesto which made no commitment to leaving the single market. I'd prefer Arlene Foster's actual words where she unequivocally rejected a hard brexit. I'd prefer the joint letter last August signed by Arlene Foster which expressed concern issue which would be severely jeopardised by leaving the single market, ranging from hard border, loss of free movement, through to no longer having access to various EU funding pots.

So your googling eventually found one ill-informed journalist mistakenly thinking the DUP favoured hard brexit. I'll trade you (across political spectrum and found in seconds):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/Who-are-the-DUP-democratic-unionist-party-northern-ireland/
https://www.ft.com/content/49201a76-4ea6-11e7-bfb8-997009366969?mhq5j=e2
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/who-democratic-unionist-party-what-10589910
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/09/from-climate-denial-to-abortion-heres-six-dup-policies-you-should-know-about

But even your own article, while asserting that the DUP want to leave the single market (with no evidence) concludes that the best way for the DUP to achieve their brexit aims is via soft brexit and remaining in the customs union and single market. Maybe you didn't actually read to the end of the article, but here it is:

'The easiest way to square the circle for the DUP would be a soft Brexit. If Britain remained in the Customs Union it would go against the plan of opening up new trade routes elsewhere but would greatly simplify the issue of the Irish Border and dial down the risks to the North’s businesses.

How much influence the DUP will have in all this is questionable. Its priority may well be financial benefits for the North from the British exchequer but the only way to have Brexit and defuse the Border issue is for Britain to stay in the Customs Union, and ideally the Single Market.'

[jakswan]

I think that Major would think that currently a Republic govt propped up by Sinn Fein would cause the same issue, as do I.

That is all I was looking for, a fair position to hold, the arbitrators of what is fair, SF in this case, are likely to disagree.

[Nearly Sane]

That is all I was looking for, a fair position to hold, the arbitrators of what is fair, SF in this case, are likely to disagree.

Again though it is irrelevant as to whether it is a breach. Your entire approach here has been based on badly phrased questions and a ludicrous tu quoque. I pointed that out at the start but you haven't seemed capable of understanding it. I could happily be posting that Sinn Fein need to be taken into govt and it matters not a whit as to the statement that this is a breach of the GFA being true. The argument does not depend on consistency. If an alcoholic tells you drinking too much is bad for you, they aren't wrong because they are necking a bottle of Aftershock while doing so.