UK General Election 2017

[Nearly Sane]

Why is it John Mc Donnell's poetic description of the crimes of capitalism taken literally and yet Boris Johnson's ''Pfwahpfafflepfwaargh aaaeeeaaaapflump'' translates as ''My word, that's terrific..... who else could and should be our prime minister!!!''?

False dichotomy and irrelevant whataboutery.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

False dichotomy and irrelevant whataboutery.

Irrelevant whataboutery has been the bedrock of this forum for over half a decade. That and Dalraidian antitheistic twattery.

[Nearly Sane]

Irrelevant whataboutery has been the bedrock of this forum for over half a decade. That and Dalraidian antitheistic twattery.

and some more whataboutery and more lying from you.

[jakswan]

Is there any relevance to your orgasm of whataboutery here?

My mistake I thought we were about to engage in a meaningful debate about economics, forgot I was on the gotcha virtue signalling forum.

[Nearly Sane]

My mistake I thought we were about to engage in a meaningful debate about economics, forgot I was on the gotcha virtue signalling forum.

oh stop it! Your post engaged in some irrelevant whataboutery, if you want meaningful debate then doing that gets in the way. You use this approach all the time. Say something that gets in the way of meaningful debate and when you are picked up on it, complain it's the other persons fault.

[jakswan]

oh stop it! Your post engaged in some irrelevant whataboutery, if you want meaningful debate then doing that gets in the way. You use this approach all the time. Say something that gets in the way of meaningful debate and when you are picked up on it, complain it's the other persons fault.

You were had just posted on the merits of economic policy of the Tories and Labour, mentioned the Laffar curve, I pointed out that the IFS found both to be dishonest but, in IFS terms, were pretty scathing about Labours Corp tax plans.

For it to qualify as 'whataboutery' imho I'd have to have mentioned something out of context like Trident.

[Nearly Sane]

You were had just posted on the merits of economic policy of the Tories and Labour, mentioned the Laffar curve, I pointed out that the IFS found both to be dishonest but, in IFS terms, were pretty scathing about Labours Corp tax plans.

For it to qualify as 'whataboutery' imho I'd have to have mentioned something out of context like Trident.

I suggest you need to reread what was posted. I wasn't discussing the relative merits at all but pointing out that both sides promote economic illiteracy. And that because you can point to the other side being bad, doesn't allow you to ignore your own flaws. I.e. that it's a form of the tu quoque, otherwise known as whataboutery (note you seem not to understand whataboutery).

Ypu then posted something about how bad Labour were in the opinion of the IFS, indulging in the same whataboutery, and for good measure threw in something about the SNP and Ed Milliband.

[jakswan]

I suggest you need to reread what was posted. I wasn't discussing the relative merits at all but pointing out that both sides promote economic illiteracy.

If you are pointing out that both sides promote economic illiteracy, then that is discussing their relative merits or lack thereof.

And that because you can point to the other side being bad, doesn't allow you to ignore your own flaws. I.e. that it's a form of the tu quoque, otherwise known as whataboutery (note you seem not to understand whataboutery).

Don't disagree, if I was advocating for a side.

Ypu then posted something about how bad Labour were in the opinion of the IFS, indulging in the same whataboutery, and for good measure threw in something about the SNP and Ed Milliband.

Yes because you had brought up the fact that there was economic illiteracy on both sides, I pointed out the economic illiteracy on one of those sides, especially as you had already mentioned the laffar curve. 

[Nearly Sane]

If you are pointing out that both sides promote economic illiteracy, then that is discussing their relative merits or lack thereof.

Don't disagree, if I was advocating for a side.

Yes because you had brought up the fact that there was economic illiteracy on both sides, I pointed out the economic illiteracy on one of those sides, especially as you had already mentioned the laffar curve.

I am sure you think you are making a point here but I am at a loss to what it is.
 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Happy to read teachers in Walsall aren't putting up with taking shit for the lousy fiscally responsible 1% PA.

[jakswan]

I was not really overly concerned DUP policy with regard to proving you wrong (again), more concerned with DUP policy as it would indicate their likely behaviour.

Confirmed:-
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sammy-wilson-affirms-that-dup-want-to-quit-single-market-1-8035221

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Can't work out whether the Labour right are actually trying to reign in Corbyn or whether this is a new ploy by the RWP.

Umunna is/was working on Blairite entitlement theory IMHO.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Tories stuffed.

Corbyn only has to lower the price of costs like tuition fees and raise wages just below/above what the tories can now the argument has shifted ground.

That's what happens when you make life difficult for the majority of your electorate,

[Walt Zingmatilder]

well I don't know about anyone else but I feel our thinking to have been massaged back to 17 April, election what election? Tories sailing to a vast majority No rush decisions on Brexit and Marie Keunssbergette still tending the BBC anticorbyn attack sheep.

[wigginhall]

It's a weird political scene.   The Tories in many ways look exhausted and bereft of ideas, but they hang on, and Mrs May hangs on, since they dare not replace her.   And another election is out of the question, since Labour would probably win.

I'm not sure about Labour, since the right wing are still making anti-Corbyn noises, and that could pull Labour's numbers down.  And of course, Brexit hangs over it all like a decaying corpse.   Plenty of people are saying, let's rethink it, but then politicians are frightened of the backlash from Brexiteers, violence, and so on.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's a weird political scene.   The Tories in many ways look exhausted and bereft of ideas, but they hang on, and Mrs May hangs on, since they dare not replace her.   And another election is out of the question, since Labour would probably win.

I'm not sure about Labour, since the right wing are still making anti-Corbyn noises, and that could pull Labour's numbers down.  And of course, Brexit hangs over it all like a decaying corpse.   Plenty of people are saying, let's rethink it, but then politicians are frightened of the backlash from Brexiteers, violence, and so on.

I fear you are right Tory fortunes have been nailed to the Brexit thing that there is more of a Brexit entitlement than a Tory entitlement. Politics must be suspended because of Brexit hence Mays all must come together line....and that is why Corbyn is right to define Labour as it is because a fudge and judge Brexit just reestablishes the old narrative of Tory competence.

[wigginhall]

Corbyn's best bet is to stand back, and watch the Tories commit suicide.   But then again, right wing Labour may want Corbyn to fail. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Corbyn's best bet is to stand back, and watch the Tories commit suicide.   But then again, right wing Labour may want Corbyn to fail.

Yep all though there is the right wing tendency remaining and the Tories have become a bit like Carpenters The Thing where they assume the appearance of what they absorb vis UKIP.

[Aruntraveller]

Yep all though there is the right wing tendency remaining and the Tories have become a bit like Carpenters The Thing where they assume the appearance of what they absorb vis UKIP.

For some reason I was trying to make sense of this by referencing Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft - I had to re-read and then got it. Not JC's best, but as an allegory pretty spot on in this case.

[Nearly Sane]

I think the headline overly dramatic but the demographics of the election interesting



https://capx.co/can-the-tories-save-themselves-from-demographic-disaster/

[floo]

As you say, 'overly dramatic', but it makes interesting reading.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think the headline overly dramatic but the demographics of the election interesting



https://capx.co/can-the-tories-save-themselves-from-demographic-disaster/

The Tories have had problems with the electorate for a long while.

They have only held an overall majority in the Commons for 2 of the last 21 years. And the last time they won a 'useable' majority - in other words one unlikely to be whittled away over the course of a Parliament - was 1987, over 30 years ago now.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Keunssberg becomes star of Labour conference.
The ultimate BBC self reference.

[Outrider]

Keunssberg becomes star of Labour conference. The ultimate BBC self reference.

How is the Labour party showing a right-of-centre influenced correspondent of a broadly centrist, independently run, state-funded broadcaster 'self-referential'?

O.

[Nearly Sane]

Keunssberg becomes star of Labour conference.
The ultimate BBC self reference.

in which Vlad appears to make light of and thereby condone threats of violence

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/laura-kuenssberg-labour-party-conference-bodyguards-bbc-politics-editor-online-abuse-social-media-a7965301.html