Author Topic: Our plastic society...  (Read 2479 times)

Nearly Sane

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Aruntraveller

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2017, 03:32:57 PM »
Yes I saw this earlier.

Truly horrible. We all need to be aware that if something is called 'disposable' in all probability that is a misnomer.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2017, 03:36:49 PM »
You do have to wonder if we are beyond a point of no return. There is very little political will to do anything serious

Aruntraveller

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2017, 03:49:33 PM »
You do have to wonder if we are beyond a point of no return. There is very little political will to do anything serious

I remember reading a book by Vance Packard in the 70's (I think) called 'The Waste Makers'. From memory he was of the opinion that we had already reached that stage then. He also wrote 'The Hidden Persuaders'. Both are of their time - but they are still relevant today, imo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Packard

Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Sassy

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 04:33:39 PM »
Yes I saw this earlier.

Truly horrible. We all need to be aware that if something is called 'disposable' in all probability that is a misnomer.

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
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torridon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 07:14:35 AM »
Apparently 90% of seabirds have been found to have plastic in the stomach when opened.  This is a dreadful figure, but it is only set to rise, with plastic production doubling every ten years or so, scientists expect this figure to be 100% by 2050.  Migrating seabirds like albatross are particularly at risk - they fly huge distances over open ocean and need to feed en route and it has always been a reasonable assumption for them that anything on the ocean surface was edible.  That is no longer a reasonable assumption and they end up swallowing cigarette lighters and suchlike which they are unable to digest and then excrete and their stomach capacity is consequently reduced as is their ability to feed their young, being unable to regurgitate cigarette lighters.

This episode of Natural World from 2007 is particularly moving; the section on albatross starts at around 38 mins in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0079st6/natural-world-20062007-hawaii-message-in-the-waves###

Plastic was a great invention but we cannot just throw it away into the oceans without consequence.  A number of groups are campaigning to change attitudes to disposable goods, here is one such :

https://www.plasticoceans.org/
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:26:07 AM by torridon »

Sriram

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 07:30:24 AM »
Apparently 90% of seabirds have been found to have plastic in the stomach when opened.  This is a dreadful figure, but it is only set to rise, with plastic production doubling every ten years or so, scientists expect this figure to be 100% by 2050.  Migrating seabirds like albatross are particularly at risk - they fly huge distances over open ocean and need to feed en route and it has always been a reasonable assumption for them that anything on the ocean surface was edible.  That is no longer a reasonable assumption and they end up swallowing cigarette lighters and suchlike which they are unable to digest and then excrete and their stomach capacity is consequently reduced as is their ability to feed their young, being unable to regurgitate cigarette lighters.

This episode of Natural World from 2007 is particularly moving; the section on albatross starts at around 38 mins in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0079st6/natural-world-20062007-hawaii-message-in-the-waves###

Plastic was a great invention but we cannot just throw it away into the oceans without consequence.  A number of groups are campaigning to change attitudes to disposable goods, here is one such :

https://www.plasticoceans.org/



We cannot say plastic is a great invention when it is such a huge problem. One wishes it had never been invented. In any form it is a disaster because it cannot be disposed off and is toxic.   They tried to come up with some bacteria that could eat up the plastic...but I am not sure what happened. 

torridon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 09:09:20 AM »


We cannot say plastic is a great invention when it is such a huge problem. One wishes it had never been invented. In any form it is a disaster because it cannot be disposed off and is toxic.   They tried to come up with some bacteria that could eat up the plastic...but I am not sure what happened.

Irrespective of what we achieve in the lab, bacteria are already evolving 'in the wild' to metabolise plastic apparently; also algae and caterpillars have been observed to digest plastic, so in a sense, this is an example of Gaia responding to a disturbance caused by humans.  This is planet bacteria, our non-biodegradables do turn out to be biodegradable after all we just have to wait for evolution to do its stuff.  Our problem might be an opportunity for other life, but that doesn't translate into it being ok for humans to be inconsiderate, banking on evolution to sort our garbage out for us.  In the short and medium term we need to become more aware of our wider impacts.

ekim

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 10:45:43 AM »
Irrespective of what we achieve in the lab, bacteria are already evolving 'in the wild' to metabolise plastic apparently; also algae and caterpillars have been observed to digest plastic, so in a sense, this is an example of Gaia responding to a disturbance caused by humans.  This is planet bacteria, our non-biodegradables do turn out to be biodegradable after all we just have to wait for evolution to do its stuff.  Our problem might be an opportunity for other life, but that doesn't translate into it being ok for humans to be inconsiderate, banking on evolution to sort our garbage out for us.  In the short and medium term we need to become more aware of our wider impacts.
I remember seeing a science fiction film many years ago where plastic digesting bacteria started digesting the plastic coatings of electricity cables.  Planes fell out of the air and industries started collapsing.

Rhiannon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2017, 10:49:02 AM »
I remember seeing a science fiction film many years ago where plastic digesting bacteria started digesting the plastic coatings of electricity cables.  Planes fell out of the air and industries started collapsing.

In a sense this is a bit like the overuse of antibiotics. We could have confined the use of plastics to essentials (medical equipment for example) but instead overused them where they really haven't been necessary and have often been undesirable (drinks bottles for example).

Nearly Sane

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 11:36:37 AM »
I remember seeing a science fiction film many years ago where plastic digesting bacteria started digesting the plastic coatings of electricity cables.  Planes fell out of the air and industries started collapsing.

Doomwatch, I think.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 11:42:05 PM »
Doomwatch, I think.
Great show. Today's BBC doesn't have the cojones to make something like that now...unless it was Jeremy Corbyn that was digesting the plastic coatings of electrical cables.

torridon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 12:16:50 PM »
Good news from the UN oceans summit, Asian nations coming together to make agreements on cleaning up the plastics problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40195664

torridon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2017, 09:59:59 AM »
Citizen science project for anyone wishing to get involved with the issue of plastics :

https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/theplastictide/the-plastic-tide

Rhiannon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2017, 10:08:49 AM »

ekim

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2017, 10:29:18 AM »
Micro plastics which sea creatures consume are difficult to control.  Every time a synthetic fleece is washed, for example, microscopic particles can later be discharged into the sea and eventually enter  the food chain.  Perhaps plastic man will eventually evolve.... another character for Marvel comics perhaps.

torridon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 07:39:13 AM »
Most plastic food packaging is not recycled, local authorities admit.  It ends up in landfill. The plastic of milk bottles is good quality and can be recycled, but the plastic used for packs of mushrooms for instance is not suitable for recycling.  I am going to be picking loose mushrooms and taking them home in a paper bag rather than buying packs from now on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45058971


Sriram

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 06:13:47 AM »


Yes...we need to make lots of life style changes if we want to  make a difference.

In my city most plastic spoons, plates in eateries have been banned. They now have wooden spoons and paper plates. No straws. Some areas have also started cutlery banks from where people can rent steel cutlery for parties and get together's, instead of using  plastic  ones.

Supermarkets have almost completely given up on plastic containers and wrappings. Plastic carry bags are banned. We all carry cloth bags for shopping. Veggies and stuff are wrapped in paper bags.

Someone needs to come up with something for packaged water and cool drinks.  These generate maximum plastic.

Reusable women's hygiene products are now popular and are being promoted by NGO's instead of the single use ones.

Not sure what to do about condoms. Millions are being thrown away every day.

torridon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 07:13:10 AM »
That sounds like you're already ahead of us here in terms of lifestyle changes.  Maybe the Indian mind has always been more habituated to principles of economy, reuse and recycle.  Here, the consumerist throw-away mindset has had more time to become normalised and will take longer to undo.

Sriram

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 07:28:37 AM »

Yes... and most of us have always been rather suspicious of the 'newfangled' western lifestyle anyway. Many people had hardly given up on their old lifestyles.  Wealth did not always translate to westernization.

A large population of poor people also means that we are always conscious of our responsibilities. We all have servants to do our daily chores. Most left over foods are  given to them.  Minimum wastage.

Single use items are normally avoided. Cars, TV's, fridges and so on are kept for years, even decades. Rarely do even rich people change models just for the heck of it. I don't know about UK, but in America I understand people throw away good usable items just because they are outdated. This is sad.

Luckily, as changes were happening we also realized their negatives. So it is easier to adjust.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 08:07:33 AM »
Would I be right in thinking that the problem of plastic waste is something that the UK can tackle better in conjunction with a larger political bloc than on its own?

Another reason for the Maybot to rethink her relationship with the EU? She will get no help in this matter from Trump despite holding hands with him on at least two occasions.  Related - global climate change appears to be approaching a tipping point(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45084144). Well, we know what Trump thinks of this!
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Rhiannon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 08:40:55 AM »
Would I be right in thinking that the problem of plastic waste is something that the UK can tackle better in conjunction with a larger political bloc than on its own?

Another reason for the Maybot to rethink her relationship with the EU? She will get no help in this matter from Trump despite holding hands with him on at least two occasions. 

Such as the fridge recycling debacle?

Rhiannon

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 08:46:37 AM »
Yes... and most of us have always been rather suspicious of the 'newfangled' western lifestyle anyway. Many people had hardly given up on their old lifestyles.  Wealth did not always translate to westernization.

A large population of poor people also means that we are always conscious of our responsibilities. We all have servants to do our daily chores. Most left over foods are  given to them.  Minimum wastage.

Single use items are normally avoided. Cars, TV's, fridges and so on are kept for years, even decades. Rarely do even rich people change models just for the heck of it. I don't know about UK, but in America I understand people throw away good usable items just because they are outdated. This is sad.

Luckily, as changes were happening we also realized their negatives. So it is easier to adjust.

There is still a drive to have the biggest and newest, Sriram. But speaking for myself I use things until they really need replacing (my tv is ten years old and it shows), I always pay the store to take my old appliance away (in the past this meant that it would be reconditioned and sold on or shipped to the developing world but I know that EU regulations regarding fridges stopped that, but at least you know it will b recycled properly) and I am the same with tech - update it when I have no other option.

Single use plastic is so much harder and the biggest source of all is food packaging. The supermarkets really need to get their act together so you can use paper bags to pack loose fruit and veg in, and have other foods in recyclable trays.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Our plastic society...
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 09:14:17 AM »
Such as the fridge recycling debacle?

Do you mean this?   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/jun/20/uk.greenpolitics

What a long memory you have ...
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