Evil

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

What is 'evil'?  Is it the work of some entity like the Devil?  Is it natural? Is there some part of it that is unexplained?

I think Evil has the following reasons

1. Many natural animal instincts that we have inherited can become evil if seen in humans. Normal animal instinctive behavior such as  Killing of sexual rivals, killing of rival offspring, cannibalism, abandoning the sick and infirm and so on, that is common in animals for survival and procreation, can be seen as evil in humans.

2. Regardless of the above, Pleasure Seeking which is common in humans (and a few higher animals) is responsible for many of our desires that can also be seen as Evil. Pleasure seeking, though largely sexual, is also present in eating, sleeping, drinking, ego gratification.  These cannot be seen as natural needs meant for survival or passing on ones DNA.   Pleasure seeking is an end in itself and is largely responsible for many 'evils' in society. Much of rape, sadism, trafficking is due to this desire. Why this 'need' for pleasure arises is not clear. This could be what many religious people see as the work of the Devil!

3. Seeking power and money can also be the source of much evil. It is perhaps linked to both the first and the second above.

4. Some strong memes can lead to fanaticism and evil behavior.   

5. Rational thinking being largely amoral, can also contribute to what can be seen as evil.


Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram

PS: If interested, you can read more about this at https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/evil/

[Harrowby Hall]

Evil is just a hyperbolic way of saying "bad".

[Gordon]

For me 'evil' is a combination of things you strongly disapprove of and/or are personally frightened of: it is primarily subjective, but where on some issues there may be a societal consensus.

[Harrowby Hall]

You recall the Shannon Mathews case.

For Sriram's benefit, she was a nine year old girl whose mother, Karen, claimed had been abducted. In reality, Shannon had been hidden in the house of Karen's boy friend's uncle in the hope that the "disappearance" would cause an outbreak of public generosity. Karen was "inspired" by the public concern about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Following Karen's conviction on a number of counts, a senior police officer described her as "pure evil". No-one who talked to me about this has agreed with this assessment. They described her as "stupid", "sad", "misguided" "a bad mother" and so on. No-one thought that her conviction was inappropriate or unfair - she deserved her sentence.

But no-one thought her "evil".

[torridon]

Hi everyone,

What is 'evil'?  Is it the work of some entity like the Devil?  Is it natural? Is there some part of it that is unexplained?

Simples, evil doesn't exist.

There is no ontological basis for evil.

What does exist is a range of behaviours that can be described on a spectrum of selfless to self-centered. "Evil" belongs in the days before we understood that the maladjusted behaviours of sociopaths etc resulted from prior influences and we naively blamed these inexplicable behaviours on some invasive malign spirit or demon.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Simples, evil doesn't exist.

There is no ontological basis for evil.

What does exist is a range of behaviours that can be described on a spectrum of selfless to self-centered. "Evil" belongs in the days before we understood that the maladjusted behaviours of sociopaths etc resulted from prior influences and we naively blamed these inexplicable behaviours on some invasive malign spirit or demon.

Evil is not a material property and does therefore not compute with the pathological reductionist and let's face it for that persuasion if it cannot compute it cannot be and we can simply trace the arbitrary declaration of non existence.
The introduction of the invasive malign spirit or demon is red herring since these are not requisites for a belief in evil.
It is an emergent property of consciousness.

[floo]

Evil is only a term for something which is very bad, imo.

[Sriram]

Yes...evil can be subjective...but there are many areas where certain evil acts are universally  acknowledged as evil.

There is clearly a conflict between what we perceive as good for ourselves as individuals and what is right for the society as a whole.

What is good for us, our survival, our procreation and our pleasure seeking often conflicts with others and we tend to harm others in the process.  Therefore maintaining a control and discipline over our minds, needs and desires is what we consider as civilized  and also as spiritually acceptable.

The issue is with the source of this evil tendency. Is it in the genes? Is there also some external source of this evil which cannot be explained by animal instincts?

[torridon]

Yes...evil can be subjective...but there are many areas where certain evil acts are universally  acknowledged as evil.

There is clearly a conflict between what we perceive as good for ourselves as individuals and what is right for the society as a whole.

What is good for us, our survival, our procreation and our pleasure seeking often conflicts with others and we tend to harm others in the process.  Therefore maintaining a control and discipline over our minds, needs and desires is what we consider as civilized  and also as spiritually acceptable.

The issue is with the source of this evil tendency. Is it in the genes? Is there also some external source of this evil which cannot be explained by animal instincts?

In DNA to some extent, arguably, since we can now spot a potential psychopath from DNA analysis alone; although nurturing, I'm guessing, is probably the more important factor in determining whether we grow up well adjusted or maladjusted.

[Sebastian Toe]

...but there are many areas where certain evil acts are universally  acknowledged as evil.

Could you share some of these?

[floo]

Yes...evil can be subjective...but there are many areas where certain evil acts are universally  acknowledged as evil.

There is clearly a conflict between what we perceive as good for ourselves as individuals and what is right for the society as a whole.

What is good for us, our survival, our procreation and our pleasure seeking often conflicts with others and we tend to harm others in the process.  Therefore maintaining a control and discipline over our minds, needs and desires is what we consider as civilized  and also as spiritually acceptable.

The issue is with the source of this evil tendency. Is it in the genes? Is there also some external source of this evil which cannot be explained by animal instincts?

Evil is only a term for very bad, it doesn't have a separate meaning, imo.

[Sassy]

Hi everyone,

What is 'evil'?  Is it the work of some entity like the Devil?  Is it natural? Is there some part of it that is unexplained?

Define Evil and the reasoning used to know it is EVIL then explain what evil is?

I think Evil has the following reasons

How does evil exist in a reasoning capacity? It cannot think for itself for evil does not exist outside the creation of living things.
Your wording was correct... Evil if it ever had a reason to exist could be seen as the 'Devil' and started with a 'lie'
Isn't it true to say that had Satan not lied to Adam and Evil then good and evil would not be known amongst humans?
Isn't Evil about deception which leads to mistreatment of others?

1. Many natural animal instincts that we have inherited can become evil if seen in humans. Normal animal instinctive behavior such as  Killing of sexual rivals, killing of rival offspring, cannibalism, abandoning the sick and infirm and so on, that is common in animals for survival and procreation, can be seen as evil in humans.

When do these things occur for humans rather than animals. We are not animals, certainly not in the way you mean.
If animals could care for their children as we do, then we would give up our own lives before taking our children's.
So I do not see comparisons. Back in time when a trail coach of people got stuck in winter months unable to travel
to their destination, the men folk without the rest of them knowing sacrificed themselves to feed their families and keep
them alive till they could get through. Animals would have eaten their young not sacrificed themselves.

2. Regardless of the above, Pleasure Seeking which is common in humans (and a few higher animals) is responsible for many of our desires that can also be seen as Evil. Pleasure seeking, though largely sexual, is also present in eating, sleeping, drinking, ego gratification.  These cannot be seen as natural needs meant for survival or passing on ones DNA.   Pleasure seeking is an end in itself and is largely responsible for many 'evils' in society. Much of rape, sadism, trafficking is due to this desire. Why this 'need' for pleasure arises is not clear. This could be what many religious people see as the work of the Devil!

So eating is a sin? If the world had not fallen would have man have had booze, or done any of the things above?
Evil and sin is part of the person the Devil. To hurt others and to lead man by the nose due to his own feelings and thoughts.
But Christ, he never did that, did he. He told Satan, " Worship the Lord God and only him alone."  You could say men sin when they seek after themselves and not the good of others.  Rape and trafficking is not about desire, it is about power and it is in the latter about MONEY.  Motivation comes from the heart. If everyone did as Christ did and counted every person as their family who would rape or murder their own or sell them? Man can choose not to do something. They can choose not hurt another.
It matters not the reason you hurt another person, whether it be religion, racism, or sexuality etc. If you hurt someone for any reason to do with a difference then you are guilty of being phobic of some nature.

3. Seeking power and money can also be the source of much evil. It is perhaps linked to both the first and the second above.

Is subversiveness is not a good thing. Forcing others to do what they do not want to do. It is more than about power and money.
We both believe power and money had a lot to do with it, but like Satan, with Christ he tries to buy his allegiance by showing all he has to gain. In reality we see that choosing God and obeying God brought Christ much more authority and power that the riches of the world could not buy or offer.
He showed that loving our fellow man and doing right by God is what brings real peace and satisfaction to the human being.
It puts an end to the evil men do to gain riches, wealth and power.
At the end of the day men choose how they treat others.

4. Some strong memes can lead to fanaticism and evil behavior. 

 

Where do they originate from?? They do not lead they are what comes from the heart of a person when they choose
the wrong way.

5. Rational thinking being largely amoral, can also contribute to what can be seen as evil.

Is sin rational or irrational?  Is Evil rational or irrational?  Is War rational or irrational?

You have to have a basis to start with. When Christ being tested by the devil in the wilderness there was a clear right and
wrong to follow. In society take away the religious element and the law now show us your ability to make rational thinking evil or good.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram

PS: If interested, you can read more about this at https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/evil/

Man has always know right from wrong.

[floo]

Thus spake Sass.