Does man really believe he is not responsible for their own actions and thoughts

[Sassy]

An interesting snippet from Wiggs recent link:

J. B. S. Haldane, who appeals to a similar line of reasoning in his 1927 book, Possible Worlds: "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true ... and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."

So AB, For the benefit of those here, what would it be about the human being that God can convict them of sin?

They have truly shot themselves in the foot if they deny the very things that make them human and responsible for their own thoughts and actions. Do actions bring about the thought or does the thought from self bring about the actions?

If you follow the train of thoughts above.
Does the brain, thoughts and actions control the man or does the man via the brain control the thoughts and actions?

Call them atoms or whatever.... who is responsible for what you think and what you do?

God condemns the actions which hurt others and sins against him and mankind.
It appears men want to discharge their responsibility for the events of the day onto it being the fault of some 'matter' rather than the driving force of the 'matter' themselves.

[torridon]

So AB, For the benefit of those here, what would it be about the human being that God can convict them of sin?

They have truly shot themselves in the foot if they deny the very things that make them human and responsible for their own thoughts and actions. Do actions bring about the thought or does the thought from self bring about the actions?

If you follow the train of thoughts above.
Does the brain, thoughts and actions control the man or does the man via the brain control the thoughts and actions?

Call them atoms or whatever.... who is responsible for what you think and what you do?

It is a brain that monitors the state of a body and responds with motor action in response to perceived need.  That is broadly what brains do, what they are for.  The feeling of being a 'me', a unique being in receipt of experience and making decisions is a phenomenological layer of mind produced by the brain in accordance with its overall remit to optimise its own milieu and hence the eventual promulgation of the genes that made it.

[Sriram]

It is a brain that monitors the state of a body and responds with motor action in response to perceived need.  That is broadly what brains do, what they are for.  The feeling of being a 'me', a unique being in receipt of experience and making decisions is a phenomenological layer of mind produced by the brain in accordance with its overall remit to optimise its own milieu and hence the eventual promulgation of the genes that made it.

In other words, our genes came up with the idea of creating a brain with intricate neural connections...so that the brain could produce phenomenological mental states to optimise its milieu or whatever....and thereby promulgate itself?!  Hmmmm!! Nice!   

[Sebastian Toe]

In other words, our genes came up with the idea of creating a brain with intricate neural connections...so that the brain could produce phenomenological mental states to optimise its milieu or whatever....and thereby promulgate itself?!  Hmmmm!! Nice!   

If not genes, then what?

[floo]

So AB, For the benefit of those here, what would it be about the human being that God can convict them of sin?

They have truly shot themselves in the foot if they deny the very things that make them human and responsible for their own thoughts and actions. Do actions bring about the thought or does the thought from self bring about the actions?

If you follow the train of thoughts above.
Does the brain, thoughts and actions control the man or does the man via the brain control the thoughts and actions?

Call them atoms or whatever.... who is responsible for what you think and what you do?

God condemns the actions which hurt others and sins against him and mankind.
It appears men want to discharge their responsibility for the events of the day onto it being the fault of some 'matter' rather than the driving force of the 'matter' themselves.

You make statements about god, for which you have no evidence whatsoever. The actions god attributed to god hurt humans BIG TIME!

[Aruntraveller]

OMG

The actions god attributed to god hurt humans BIG TIME!

Floo is morphing into the Trumpster.

Run, run for your lives.

[floo]

OMG

Floo is morphing into the Trumpster.

Run, run for your lives.

What are you on about, are you suffering from a touch of the sun?

[Nearly Sane]

What are you on about, are you suffering from a touch of the sun?

Your post read like one of Trump's tweets with the capitalised BIG TIME

[Aruntraveller]

Your post read like one of Trump's tweets with the capitalised BIG TIME

That and the fact that it didn't read quite right somehow....'God attributed to god' was the kind of confusion that Trump likes to weave into his speech to cause maximum room for deflection and deception.

Although I realize this follows on from a Sasspost so it could just be Floo trying to make sense of the insensible.

[floo]

Your post read like one of Trump's tweets with the capitalised BIG TIME

OMG, I think I shall shoot myself now!

[Bubbles]

So AB, For the benefit of those here, what would it be about the human being that God can convict them of sin?

They have truly shot themselves in the foot if they deny the very things that make them human and responsible for their own thoughts and actions. Do actions bring about the thought or does the thought from self bring about the actions?

If you follow the train of thoughts above.
Does the brain, thoughts and actions control the man or does the man via the brain control the thoughts and actions?

Call them atoms or whatever.... who is responsible for what you think and what you do?

God condemns the actions which hurt others and sins against him and mankind.
It appears men want to discharge their responsibility for the events of the day onto it being the fault of some 'matter' rather than the driving force of the 'matter' themselves.

Sometimes, due to chemical imbalances in the brain, people are not responsible for what they do or think.

Chemicals and hormones are "matter".

It can apply to some forms of depression when people can't suddenly choose to be cheerful to conditions where people are unable to control their paranoid thoughts.

Not everyone has a choice, some have brains that have imbalances which dictate their actions and behaviours and what responsibility do they have?

[torridon]

Not everyone has a choice, some have brains that have imbalances which dictate their actions and behaviours and what responsibility do they have?

That reminds me of the lady who says 'biscuit' 900 times an hour.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2132412/The-woman-says-biscuit-900-times-hour-Listen-Tourette-s-sufferer-breaks-taboo-humour.html

We can't help thinking, well just stop saying biscuit then missus.

Not that simple eh ?

[Nearly Sane]

That reminds me of the lady who says 'biscuit' 900 times an hour.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2132412/The-woman-says-biscuit-900-times-hour-Listen-Tourette-s-sufferer-breaks-taboo-humour.html

We can't help thinking, well just stop saying biscuit then missus.

Not that simple eh ?

Biscuit

[torridon]

oh, not you as well now 

[Nearly Sane]

oh, not you as well now 

biscuit

[Robbie]

Sometimes, due to chemical imbalances in the brain, people are not responsible for what they do or think.

Chemicals and hormones are "matter".

It can apply to some forms of depression when people can't suddenly choose to be cheerful to conditions where people are unable to control their paranoid thoughts.

Not everyone has a choice, some have brains that have imbalances which dictate their actions and behaviours and what responsibility do they have?

You're right Rose.

The downside to this is people on remand go to great lengths to give the appearance of mental illness &/or a low IQ.

The professionals usually see through that but not always.

But yes, you're accurate, there are those who are not responsible for their actions because they're ill &their suffering is great knowing what they did - not knowing why, afraid it might happen again.

They deserve compassion, mercy and proper care,not punishment.

Most of us are responsible for our actions though.

[Sebastian Toe]

That reminds me of the lady who says 'biscuit' 900 times an hour.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2132412/The-woman-says-biscuit-900-times-hour-Listen-Tourette-s-sufferer-breaks-taboo-humour.html

We can't help thinking, well just stop saying biscuit then missus.

Not that simple eh ?

Crumbs!

[Sassy]

You make statements about god, for which you have no evidence whatsoever. The actions god attributed to god hurt humans BIG TIME!

Where do you think people inherit their stupidity from?
Do you think God made your decisions for you? No, I do not think that either.
Would be a fool who accused someone who can throw body and soul into hell of being a god who hurt humans when he actually saves them.
After man doing evil or woman is their own choice , isn't it?
Guilty or not guilty of sin or wrong. Why can man moan if he is punished for doing what he was warned not to do.
Double standards... you believe the Law is right to punish the man who breaks it. But you do not believe God is entitles to do the same.
STRANGE by all accounts or just bias maybe?

[Sassy]

Sometimes, due to chemical imbalances in the brain, people are not responsible for what they do or think.

Chemicals and hormones are "matter".

It can apply to some forms of depression when people can't suddenly choose to be cheerful to conditions where people are unable to control their paranoid thoughts.

Not everyone has a choice, some have brains that have imbalances which dictate their actions and behaviours and what responsibility do they have?

Whatever is wrong with the brain they still make the choice of actions. I know from first hand experience how depression and imbalances in the brain can affect a person. I also know medication helps them and most are more likely to self-harm rather than harm someone else.
Those who harm others usually do it from a paranoid episode where they believe themselves in danger and dealing with the enemy.
It isn't the inability to control their paranoid thoughts it is the illusions and imaginary events which cause them to act out of character.

Medication restores the balance.

[Sassy]

You're right Rose.

The downside to this is people on remand go to great lengths to give the appearance of mental illness &/or a low IQ.

The professionals usually see through that but not always.

But yes, you're accurate, there are those who are not responsible for their actions because they're ill &their suffering is great knowing what they did - not knowing why, afraid it might happen again.

They deserve compassion, mercy and proper care,not punishment.

Most of us are responsible for our actions though.

Mentally ill people who commit crimes are usually already diagnosed as being mentally ill.
The very few who have a breakdown and paranoid episode you can tell are mentally ill. It isn't something you can feign.

[torridon]

Whatever is wrong with the brain they still make the choice of actions...

The brain makes choices, so if the brain is compromised that will affect choices made.

[floo]

Where do you think people inherit their stupidity from?
Do you think God made your decisions for you? No, I do not think that either.
Would be a fool who accused someone who can throw body and soul into hell of being a god who hurt humans when he actually saves them.
After man doing evil or woman is their own choice , isn't it?
Guilty or not guilty of sin or wrong. Why can man moan if he is punished for doing what he was warned not to do.
Double standards... you believe the Law is right to punish the man who breaks it. But you do not believe God is entitles to do the same.
STRANGE by all accounts or just bias maybe?

If god exists and created everything it is responsible for human nature, so it should be punished BIG TIME for screwing up so very badly!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It is a brain that monitors the state of a body and responds with motor action in response to perceived need.

It is in fact your Grillocks which are responsible for that.