Religious Fasting.

[Gordon]

This thread contain posts that were off-topic where they were originally posted.

However, since they concern an issue (Religious Fasting) that might be worthy of specific discussion we've moved the posts here should anyone wish to continue discussing this issue.

[ad_orientem]

few adhere to traditional Lenten practices any more.

Amongst western Christians, true. They've forgotten how to fast. Most see it as something not integral to the Christian life and even the modern Roman obligations are a joke (two days a year during Lent and one hour before communion).

[Anchorman]

Amongst western Christians, true. They've forgotten how to fast. Most see it as something not integral to the Christian life and even the modern Roman obligations are a joke (two days a year during Lent and one hour before communion).

Probably because they are only traditions and not Scriptural injunctions.

[ad_orientem]

Probably because they are only traditions and not Scriptural injunctions.

Anyone who thinks it's not integral does not understand Christianity.

[Anchorman]

Anyone who thinks it's not integral does not understand Christianity.

Please find - in Scripture - the relevent passages ordering us to observe the 'Christian year', ad_O. Yes, we are given advice on fasting - but not when to fast. We are also given injunction to remember Christ in communion - but not the frequency or methodology of that rememberance. (Mods: Forgive me for answering Ad_O's post - should you wish, you can delete this - or alternatively, Ad-O might wish to respond on the Christian board)

[ad_orientem]

Please find - in Scripture - the relevent passages ordering us to observe the 'Christian year', ad_O. Yes, we are given advice on fasting - but not when to fast. We are also given injunction to remember Christ in communion - but not the frequency or methodology of that rememberance. (Mods: Forgive me for answering Ad_O's post - should you wish, you can delete this - or alternatively, Ad-O might wish to respond on the Christian board)

That's why you can't separate the scriptures from the life of the Church. But the you hold to the scripture alone heresy. Christians have always fasted before communion and in the period before Easter. If you can't see why that's important or how it is entirely scriptual then it shows how detatched protestants have become from the life of the Church Christ himself founded.

[Anchorman]

With respect, Ad-O, not even all Orthodox Christians observe the standard Christian year - at least they don't in Ethiopia and in some strands of the Coptic Church - which predates Eastern Orthodoxy by some time.

[ad_orientem]

With respect, Ad-O, not even all Orthodox Christians observe the standard Christian year - at least they don't in Ethiopia and in some strands of the Coptic Church - which predates Eastern Orthodoxy by some time.

That is a completely diffetent thing. And no, they do not predate Orthodoxy. All practice Eucharistic and Lentern fasts.

[Anchorman]

Again, sorry. The Coptic Church is older than that of Constantinople - the literature and some of the practices are well known from the mid second century. As for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? Much of the practices there are somewhat divorced from that of Constantinople, and bear all the hallmarks of an amalgum of Coptic Christianity with its' proto=-monasticism and post Pharonic African/Nubian influence.

[ad_orientem]

Again, sorry. The Coptic Church is older than that of Constantinople - the literature and some of the practices are well known from the mid second century. As for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? Much of the practices there are somewhat divorced from that of Constantinople, and bear all the hallmarks of an amalgum of Coptic Christianity with its' proto=-monasticism and post Pharonic African/Nubian influence.

Orthodoxy is more than Constantinople. It existed before Constantinople and would exist without it. Orthodoxy isn't a physical place. It was there from the beginning, for it is the faith. But then I wouldn't expect you to understand. Few outside do.

[Robbie]

Regardless of which tradition we follow fasting will figure at some point. The question is, does it achieve anything?
I think it does, one example is when a church group has a prayer vigil with fasting for a particular intention. It helps people who fast and pray together intensely, if only for a relatively short period, to be focussed.

[Sebastian Toe]

Even although I am not Muslim, during Ramadan I fast four times a day every day - in between meals.

[Anchorman]

Regardless of which tradition we follow fasting will figure at some point. The question is, does it achieve anything?
I think it does, one example is when a church group has a prayer vigil with fasting for a particular intention. It helps people who fast and pray together intensely, if only for a relatively short period, to be focussed.

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Yes:
Fasting simpply because it is the correct day/month to do so is a bit too ritualistic for me.
We fast, singularly or in groups, as part of a spiritual discipline or prayer time aimed at a specific goal, not because the calandar tells us to.

[Nearly Sane]

Regardless of which tradition we follow fasting will figure at some point. The question is, does it achieve anything?
I think it does, one example is when a church group has a prayer vigil with fasting for a particular intention. It helps people who fast and pray together intensely, if only for a relatively short period, to be focussed.

Focussed on what? McDonald's?

Levity aside, there is something odd about our psyche when we seem to work that by denying something you are less conscious of it. I think this is a denial of the multifarious ways we are. It works, apparently for some, but for others not so much

[ad_orientem]

-
Yes:
Fasting simpply because it is the correct day/month to do so is a bit too ritualistic for me.
We fast, singularly or in groups, as part of a spiritual discipline or prayer time aimed at a specific goal, not because the calandar tells us to.

How Protestant. But the calendar is important, even if you don't acknowlege that. Creation reflects its creator and the calendar puts the liturgy in sync with the cosmos. The Church knew this from the beginning. That is why, for instance, we (including you) celebrate the Nativity at midwinter or the Annunciation nine months earlier. If you think it's all bollocks then may I suggest celebrating the Nativity during the summer.

[floo]

How Protestant. But the calendar is important, even if you don't acknowlege that. Creation reflects its creator and the calendar puts the liturgy in sync with the cosmos. The Church knew this from the beginning. That is why, for instance, we (including you) celebrate the Nativity at midwinter or the Annunciation nine months earlier. If you think it's all bollocks then may I suggest celebrating the Nativity during the summer.

Liturgy in sync with the cosmos?

[ekim]

Even although I am not Muslim, during Ramadan I fast four times a day every day - in between meals.

I fast every night, then breakfast in the morning.

[ad_orientem]

Liturgy in sync with the cosmos?

At what time of the year do we celebrate the Nativity? What happens in the cosmos after that? Who is the light?

[Nearly Sane]

Liturgy in sync with the cosmos?

Indeed! Oddly enough, the first time I questioned the faith I was brought up in was because of the story not being in line with the weather. If you are a slightly arsey child being told that it's always bad weather at 3pm on Good Friday will lead you to carefully observe (yes, that is a split inifinitive but that 'rule' is nonsense).

[Nearly Sane]

At what time of the year do we celebrate the Nativity? What happens in the cosmos after that? Who is the light?

You big pagan. BTW what about Australia?

[floo]

At what time of the year do we celebrate the Nativity? What happens in the cosmos after that? Who is the light?

The sun is the light in our bit of the cosmos.

[Anchorman]

How Protestant. But the calendar is important, even if you don't acknowlege that. Creation reflects its creator and the calendar puts the liturgy in sync with the cosmos. The Church knew this from the beginning. That is why, for instance, we (including you) celebrate the Nativity at midwinter or the Annunciation nine months earlier. If you think it's all bollocks then may I suggest celebrating the Nativity during the summer.

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Bad choice, AD-O!
Most scholars - even Orthodox scholars - agree that the winter solstice was a cynical political move to trump the pagan Saturnalia by the political priests in the nascant Empire church.
The Incarnation probably happened in February March - or September, at the outside.
When you get right down to it, the only semi-fixed observance in the 'Christian year' is Easter - and the Church can't even get that right (and, as I understand it, various Orthodox churches are as confused as the rest of us)
It doesn't matter a bean when the Nativity happened.
All that matters is that it happened.
Dates were given to try and keep the semi-literate in line, denied as they wwere the joy of reading Scripture for themselves by a church frightened they would see the flaws in 'tradition'.

[floo]

-
Bad choice, AD-O!
Most scholars - even Orthodox scholars - agree that the winter solstice was a cynical political move to trump the pagan Saturnalia by the political priests in the nascant Empire church.
The Incarnation probably happened in February March - or September, at the outside.
When you get right down to it, the only semi-fixed observance in the 'Christian year' is Easter - and the Church can't even get that right (and, as I understand it, various Orthodox churches are as confused as the rest of us)
It doesn't matter a bean when the Nativity happened.
All that matters is that it happened.
Dates were given to try and keep the semi-literate in line, denied as they wwere the joy of reading Scripture for themselves by a church frightened they would see the flaws in 'tradition'.

Agreed.

[ad_orientem]

-
Bad choice, AD-O!
Most scholars - even Orthodox scholars - agree that the winter solstice was a cynical political move to trump the pagan Saturnalia by the political priests in the nascant Empire church.
The Incarnation probably happened in February March - or September, at the outside.
When you get right down to it, the only semi-fixed observance in the 'Christian year' is Easter - and the Church can't even get that right (and, as I understand it, various Orthodox churches are as confused as the rest of us)
It doesn't matter a bean when the Nativity happened.
All that matters is that it happened.
Dates were given to try and keep the semi-literate in line, denied as they wwere the joy of reading Scripture for themselves by a church frightened they would see the flaws in 'tradition'.

Thanks for the semi-gnostic, iconoclastic drivel.

One of the oldest feasts in the in the calendar is the Annunciation. It is from that that the Church arrived at midwinter for the Nativity. You're talking bollocks again. May I suggest you celebrate Christmas on the 17th of June. Otherwise you're a hypicrite and a blind follower of the traditions of men.

[ad_orientem]

Agreed.

Piss off, Floo, this is way above your head.