Protestantism

[ad_orientem]

This is Protestantism in a nutshell. It is essentially gnostic and iconoclast. It removes anything physical from its so-called praise, including the creation which God himself created. They should just be honest, go all out and start believing in the demiurge.

[Nearly Sane]

Surely given Protestantism's hankering for the rational, it is essentially agnostic (in the classic sense)?

[floo]

This is Protestantism in a nutshell. It is essentially gnostic and iconoclast. It removes anything physical from its so-called praise, including the creation which God himself created. They should just be honest, go all out and start believing in the demiurge.

The more moderate protestant churches have done away with a lot of crazy nonsense, that is for sure, and a good thing too.

[Nearly Sane]

The more moderate protestant churches have done away with a lot of crazy nonsense, that is for sure, and a good thing too.

Wasn't your something nasty in the woodshed (See Cold Comfort Farm)  time due to a protestant church?

[Anchorman]

Interesting to raise this on the 500th aniversary of the Reformation. Protestantism is a dead concept. We prefer 'Reformed' churches. The Reformation would have been unnessecary had the Church not descended into veniality, corruption and heresy and the intolerance of those who committed the ultimate sin of actually wanting to read Scripture for themselves.

[floo]

Interesting to raise this on the 500th aniversary of the Reformation. Protestantism is a dead concept. We prefer 'Reformed' churches. The Reformation would have been unnessecary had the Church not descended into veniality, corruption and heresy and the intolerance of those who committed the ultimate sin of actually wanting to read Scripture for themselves.

Some of those who have read the Bible for themselves have come up with some really crazy interpretations, which they have forced down the throats of others, using threats if they don't see it their way.

[ad_orientem]

Interesting to raise this on the 500th aniversary of the Reformation. Protestantism is a dead concept. We prefer 'Reformed' churches. The Reformation would have been unnessecary had the Church not descended into veniality, corruption and heresy and the intolerance of those who committed the ultimate sin of actually wanting to read Scripture for themselves.

The Church has never stopped people reading the scriptures or those versions approved by the Church through usage. And indeed in our liturgies more of the scriptures are read than in any Protestant church. Nevetheless, the scriptures cannot be properly understood outside the life of the Church.

[Anchorman]

Some of those who have read the Bible for themselves have come up with some really crazy interpretations, which they have forced down the throats of others, using threats if they don't see it their way.

At least they have the freedom to do so - the Church tried very hard to suppress Scripyture - going to the extent of imprisoning those who held 'illegal' copies, and executing some for perceived 'heresy' (though I can find nothing in Scripture which justifies their action, showing again the need for Reform)

[Anchorman]

The Church has never stopped people reading the scriptures or those versions approved by the Church through usage. And indeed in our liturgies more of the scriptures are read than in any Protestant church. Nevetheless, the scriptures cannot be properly understood outside the life of the Church.

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Have you actually studied the actions of the Church - in both East and West - when it came to dealing with those with whom it dissaproved - who would not toe the party line?

[ad_orientem]

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Have you actually studied the actions of the Church - in both East and West - when it came to dealing with those with whom it dissaproved - who would not toe the party line?

Protestants did that too. Or do you deny it?

Neverthless, the point of this thread was Protestantism's inherent gnostism and iconoclasm, for it seems to neglect the very creation God himself made from its praise.

[Anchorman]

Protestants did that too. Or do you deny it?

Neverthless, the point of this thread was Protestantism's inherent gnostism and iconoclasm, for it seems to neglect the very creation God himself made from its praise.

Of course I don't deny it - the Church is the one Body of Christ - and that body is disabled by our actions.
Neither do I deny the urgent need to reform when the church was run by corrupt individuals more interested in advancing their family claims, and self agranidissment than spreading God's word.

[ad_orientem]

Of course I don't deny it - the Church is the one Body of Christ - and that body is disabled by our actions.
Neither do I deny the urgent need to reform when the church was run by corrupt individuals more interested in advancing their family claims, and self agranidissment than spreading God's word.

Then why do you reject the sacraments and not include the cosmos in your praise?

[Anchorman]

Then why do you reject the sacraments and not include the cosmos in your praise?

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We accept two sacrements - Baptism and Communion - both of which are set out in Scripture by Christ.
As for the cosmos? When I conducted worship on Sunday I used Psalm 8 as my focus of prayer in worship.
Does that answer your question?

[ad_orientem]

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We accept two sacrements - Baptism and Communion - both of which are set out in Scripture by Christ.
As for the cosmos? When I conducted worship on Sunday I used Psalm 8 as my focus of prayer in worship.
Does that answer your question?

So in word only.

[wigginhall]

How is Protestantism gnostic?   I don't get that.   I though that it rejected a lot of symbolism, and favoured the word over the Word.   Is that gnostic?

Having thought about that for a bit, I suppose that 'born again' sounds rather gnostic, as it seems to be a mental operation of some kind, or an act of will.   

[ad_orientem]

How is Protestantism gnostic?   I don't get that.   I though that it rejected a lot of symbolism, and favoured the word over the Word.   Is that gnostic?

They reject the physical world in their worship. It's seen as something inherently bad. That is why their churches are so bare...like their faith.

[Anchorman]

Eh? I'm blissfully unaware of rejecting the physical world in worship - time spent with the Iona Community taught me quite the opposite. Just because we reject icons and statues does not negate our worship. As for buildings? Personally, I don't really rate them that much. They cost too much to maintain, and you can worship as a group together anywhere...."Wherever two or three are gathered in My name...." in fact.

[floo]

Eh? I'm blissfully unaware of rejecting the physical world in worship - time spent with the Iona Community taught me quite the opposite. Just because we reject icons and statues does not negate our worship. As for buildings? Personally, I don't really rate them that much. They cost too much to maintain, and you can worship as a group together anywhere...."Wherever two or three are gathered in My name...." in fact.

My middle daughter spent a few days with the Iona Community a month or two back. She enjoyed the experience.

[Robbie]

I like what Anchorman said about 'Reformed' being the accepted word. It's a better word than Protestant, people don't have to protest so much now.

There's good and bad in all. It's what we are and how we live that is important.

[Anchorman]

My middle daughter spent a few days with the Iona Community a month or two back. She enjoyed the experience.

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I'm still technically a member of the community, floo - though more an associate member nowadays.
We worked on the island and in the inner cities as well, and, when on the island, I enjoyed the fact that ranks, styles and denominations got the heave.
You could be in the kitchen or refectory, working with a CofE vicar, a priest or an Orthodox bishop, and it was always strictly first name terms.
As Graham Maule said in a memorable open air praise event...
"Seagulls drop bombs on everyone. They don't notice dog collars".

[floo]

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I'm still technically a member of the community, floo - though more an associate member nowadays.
We worked on the island and in the inner cities as well, and, when on the island, I enjoyed the fact that ranks, styles and denominations got the heave.
You could be in the kitchen or refectory, working with a CofE vicar, a priest or an Orthodox bishop, and it was always strictly first name terms.
As Graham Maule said in a memorable open air praise event...
"Seagulls drop bombs on everyone. They don't notice dog collars".


Very good!

[wigginhall]

They reject the physical world in their worship. It's seen as something inherently bad. That is why their churches are so bare...like their faith.

Doesn't Christianity turn away from the physical world?  After all, there is an invisible God, and an invisible Christ.   I know there are people who say that God (and Christ) is in you and me, or 'split a log, and I am there', but I'm not sure what that means.    But there is always a kind of dualism, body and spirit (or soul, with due homage to AB). 

I see the whole point of AB's theology as moving away from the physical to something which cannot be seen or tasted. 

[Robbie]

That is an aim common to many religions NS. Hindus particularly emphasise gradually becoming less wordly so that, in old age, there is a deeper spirituality, calmness and worldly possessions (tho'maybe not wordly comforts  , mean little.

Christians too try to be 'in the world but not of the world' but there's less emphasis in mainstream churches& some people are better at & make more of a point of it than others.

We all have to live in the here and now while we're here though.

Religious communities like Iona as mentioned provide valuable time out from the everyday world which can be refreshing.

[wigginhall]

That is an aim common to many religions NS. Hindus particularly emphasise gradually becoming less wordly so that, in old age, there is a deeper spirituality, calmness and worldly possessions (tho'maybe not wordly comforts  , mean little.

Christians too try to be 'in the world but not of the world' but there's less emphasis in mainstream churches& some people are better at & make more of a point of it than others.

We all have to live in the here and now while we're here though.

Religious communities like Iona as mentioned provide valuable time out from the everyday world which can be refreshing.

Is that really addressed to NS?   I have followed the opposite trajectory in my life - in my yoof, I was well into all kinds of daft spiritual stuff, but latterly, I see the natural world as my home, and that's good enough.

But the physical dies.  Isn't that a big problem for many religious? 

[ad_orientem]

Doesn't Christianity turn away from the physical world?  After all, there is an invisible God, and an invisible Christ.   I know there are people who say that God (and Christ) is in you and me, or 'split a log, and I am there', but I'm not sure what that means.    But there is always a kind of dualism, body and spirit (or soul, with due homage to AB). 

I see the whole point of AB's theology as moving away from the physical to something which cannot be seen or tasted.

On the contrary, we believe that in Christ God became flesh. Indeed, that is the main reason why we believe that the OT ban on images no longer applies, hence the use of icons etc. They confirm to us that God became man.