Author Topic: Male Genital Mutilation  (Read 78936 times)

Harrowby Hall

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Male Genital Mutilation
« on: June 03, 2017, 07:37:42 AM »
An old subject revisited.

A story from my native city:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-39976018

My understanding of this is that the little boy was taken to the GP by his grandmother who requested the circumcision. His mother did not want it done. The police are dithering (presumably not wanting to offend an ethnic/religious community). Both the GP and the grandmother should be prosecuted.

Quote
The law and ethics of male circumcision: BMA guidelines

Both parents should normally give consent for "non-therapeutic" or "ritual" circumcision, i.e. when the procedure is not carried out for medical reasons

When parents disagree about whether a child should be circumcised, doctors should not circumcise without the leave of a court

Doctors must make accurate, contemporaneous notes of discussions, consent, the procedure and its aftercare

The medical harms or benefits of circumcision have not been unequivocally proven but there are clear risks of harm if the procedure is done inexpertly

All children who are capable of expressing a view should be involved in decisions about whether they should be circumcised, and their wishes taken into account

Source: British Medical Association
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ad_orientem

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2017, 08:35:28 AM »
Circumcision should be illegal.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 08:37:14 AM »
Circumcision should be illegal.

Unless for genuine medical reasons.
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Gordon

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2017, 08:41:47 AM »
Slicing bits off of little boys so as to comply with ancient religious dogma is both fallacious (by being justified by arguments from tradition and authority) and reprehensible conduct: perhaps it is time to treat this barbarism as assault.

ad_orientem

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2017, 08:49:22 AM »
Unless for genuine medical reasons.

Agreed.
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floo

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2017, 08:53:27 AM »
Circumcision should only be doing for genuine medical reasons. Doing for religious reasons is abuse, unless it is done on a fully consenting adult male. I don't know about nowadays but at one time the foreskin  was taken off without pain relief in the Jewish ritual, which is TERRIBLE, poor baby boy! What sort of sick perverted god would demand that of its acolytes?  >:(

Shaker

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2017, 09:03:45 AM »
Exactly what everybody else has said so far +1
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floo

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2017, 09:08:11 AM »
My in-laws had my husband and his brother done as babies, even though they weren't Jewish but pain in the neck Christian Biblical literalists. They thought god would approve! :o
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 09:11:45 AM by Floo »

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2017, 09:16:52 AM »
Circumcision should only be doing for genuine medical reasons. Doing for religious reasons is abuse, unless it is done on a fully consenting adult male. I don't know about nowadays but at one time the foreskin  was taken off without pain relief in the Jewish ritual, which is TERRIBLE, poor baby boy! What sort of sick perverted god would demand that of its acolytes?  >:(

It hasn't only been for religious reasons.

It is not so long ago that circumcision was a routine "service" offered by midwives following home births. Childbirth mainly took place at home and was attended only by a midwife. circumcision was performed on baby boys two or three days old. Most of the boys that I was at school with did not have foreskins (myself included).

It was a habit which had crossed the Atlantic - being American, it was a practice which simple English women clearly thought was somehow beneficial. Little did they know that it was the originator of their breakfast cereal who encouraged circumcision (for exactly the same reason that he had invented corn flakes - he wanted to suppress the evil activity of sexual intercourse).

In the 1940s and 1950s circumcision was a female conspiracy practised by women on their sons. It is hard to imagine the thought processes involved in giving birth to a beautiful baby boy and then, awash with love, mutilating him without even the benefit of pain relief.
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Shaker

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2017, 09:19:17 AM »
Good article here:

http://tinyurl.com/y7lu3r43

with a particularly pertinent comment from the judge:

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"First and foremost, this is a once and for all, irreversible procedure. There is no guarantee that these boys will wish to continue to observe the Muslim faith with the devotion demonstrated by their father although that may very well be their choice.

"They are still very young and there is no way of anticipating at this stage how the different influences in their respective parental homes will shape and guide their development over the coming years."

« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 09:21:54 AM by Shaker »
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2017, 09:40:08 AM »
Exactly what everybody else has said so far +1
+2

DaveM

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 04:33:29 PM »
Meanwhile back in eastern and southern Africa the WHO sponsored program to achieve widespread adult male circumcision continues apace.  By end 2013 over six million adult males had been circumcised and in 2015 alone nearly 12 million were carried out.  To the best of my knowledge the initial WHO target of 20 million circumcisions by end 2016 has been comfortably exceeded.

DaveM

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2017, 04:38:28 PM »
It hasn't only been for religious reasons.

It is not so long ago that circumcision was a routine "service" offered by midwives following home births. Childbirth mainly took place at home and was attended only by a midwife. circumcision was performed on baby boys two or three days old. Most of the boys that I was at school with did not have foreskins (myself included).
Pity they never took a leaf out of Abrahams book and did it on the eighth day.  If you are going to do infant circumcision day eight is the best time to do it from a medical viewpoint.

floo

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2017, 05:11:04 PM »
Pity they never took a leaf out of Abrahams book and did it on the eighth day.  If you are going to do infant circumcision day eight is the best time to do it from a medical viewpoint.

Abraham is not a person to emulate that is for sure!

Shaker

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 05:23:09 PM »
Meanwhile back in eastern and southern Africa the WHO sponsored program to achieve widespread adult male circumcision continues apace.  By end 2013 over six million adult males had been circumcised and in 2015 alone nearly 12 million were carried out.  To the best of my knowledge the initial WHO target of 20 million circumcisions by end 2016 has been comfortably exceeded.
... which has sweet FA to do with surgery foisted upon a subject without their informed consent, as is the case with ritual mutilation of infants - the topic of this thread.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 11:34:18 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2017, 05:24:22 PM »
Pity they never took a leaf out of Abrahams book and did it on the eighth day.  If you are going to do infant circumcision [...]
...you should be arrested.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

DaveM

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2017, 05:59:33 PM »
...you should be arrested.
Arrested for stating a simple medical fact?  Wow, what sort of laws do you have in your country?

Shaker

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2017, 06:09:22 PM »
Arrested for stating a simple medical fact?

Do try and keep up. You said: "If you are going to do infant circumcision ..." to which I appended: "... you should be arrested."

Quote
Wow, what sort of laws do you have in your country?
Unfortunately not ones that ban this grotesque barbarism.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 06:11:47 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

DaveM

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2017, 06:31:28 PM »
Do try and keep up. You said: "If you are going to do infant circumcision ..." to which I appended: "... you should be arrested."
Unfortunately not ones that ban this grotesque barbarism.
If such a law did exist even a third rate lawyer would have no difficulty in getting such a charge against me thrown out of court.

Shaker

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2017, 06:38:33 PM »
If such a law did exist even a third rate lawyer would have no difficulty in getting such a charge against me thrown out of court.
Guess not!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_law
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Enki

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2017, 06:41:18 PM »
Pity they never took a leaf out of Abrahams book and did it on the eighth day.  If you are going to do infant circumcision day eight is the best time to do it from a medical viewpoint.

Really?  It seems doctors rarely carry out circumcisions for medical reasons until the age of 5, at least. In Scotland the recommendation is to wait until at least 6 to 9 months. I hope your idea of following the Abrahamic suggestion of eight days wouldn't be accompanied by the seemingly barbaric procedures of that time period, although, of course, such circumcisions weren't really carried out for medical reasons, were they, but specifically carried out as mutilation procedures associated with religious ideas and rituals? The same thing still happens today in certain cultures and religions, of course.
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trippymonkey

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2017, 07:12:38 PM »
An old subject revisited.
The police are dithering (presumably not wanting to offend an ethnic/religious community).

And the problem is...??????

jeremyp

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2017, 08:11:14 PM »
Meanwhile back in eastern and southern Africa the WHO sponsored program to achieve widespread adult male circumcision continues apace.  By end 2013 over six million adult males had been circumcised and in 2015 alone nearly 12 million were carried out.  To the best of my knowledge the initial WHO target of 20 million circumcisions by end 2016 has been comfortably exceeded.
I have no more objection to adults electing to be circumcised than I do to them having piercings or tattoos. The problem comes when doing it to people who are unable to consent.
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floo

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2017, 10:48:39 AM »
I have no more objection to adults electing to be circumcised than I do to them having piercings or tattoos. The problem comes when doing it to people who are unable to consent.

Agreed, especially as it can cause problems if the circumcision is messed up.

Sassy

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Re: Male Genital Mutilation
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2017, 01:25:16 PM »
Circumcision should be illegal.

Then men would suffer if such a thing happened.
For medical reasons sometimes the procedure must be carried out.
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