Male Genital Mutilation

[jeremyp]

No the law is able to see the difference between your examples, you obviously can't.

The law constrains your alleged right to throw your children down the stairs. It constrains your right to cut pieces off your child's genitals if your child is a girl. It's a small step to banning male circumcision.

There is absolutely no moral justification for your position. Your argument seems to be "well people have always done it". The same argument can be applied to FGM and other things like slavery. It's bullshit and you should know it.

[Bubbles]

The law constrains your alleged right to throw your children down the stairs. It constrains your right to cup pieces off your child's genitals if your child is a girl. It's a small step veto banning male circumcision.

There is absolutely no moral justification for your position. Your argument seems to be "well people have always done it". The same argument can be applied to FGM and other things like slavery. It's bullshit and you should know it.

You are wrong on several counts

[Shaker]

I think the case can be argued that it is child abuse, so it will be interesting to see how the case in Nottingham turns out.

Indeed. I'm hopeful that in the current climate this will be seen for the child abuse that it is and charges brought. No gambler I, but I'd be tempted to put money on it.

[Shaker]

You are wrong on several counts

List them. I could do with a laugh.

[jeremyp]

You are wrong on several counts

I notice you are completely unable to name any of the counts. Give it up. You are wrong.

[Bubbles]

A ban on circumcision in Germany has shocked the nation's Jews and Muslims. The right of parents to make decisions for their children is now under the spotlight.
A court ruling in Germany effectively banning circumcision has united Jews and Muslims in anger - and they are backed by the country's main medical association.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18793842
 

Note:
The are backed by the countries main medical association.

[Shaker]

A ban on circumcision in Germany has shocked the nation's Jews and Muslims

So fucking what?

[Bubbles]

https://www.the-american-interest.com/2012/06/26/german-court-declares-judaism-a-crime/

[Rhiannon]

I'm someone who favours tolerating religious and spiritual practices, however illogical. If some island people think that tourists should keep their kit on while visiting a sacred site then it doesn't hurt to respect that, there are a squillion other places to get your kit off.

But cutting bits off babies? Really? That should be respected?

[Shaker]

I'm someone who favours tolerating religious and spiritual practices, however illogical. If some island people think that tourists should keep their kit on while visiting a sacred site then it doesn't hurt to respect that, there are a squillion other places to get your kit off.

But cutting bits off babies? Really? That should be respected?

No. Stop respecting insane shit foisted on those who didn't ask for insane shit.

The momentum of lack of respect for insane shit foisted on those who didn't ask for insane shit will take care of it eventually.

Insane shit (Rhiannon's 'illogical') is fine. It can, at best, add charm and colour and interest to the species.

Insane shit forced upon someone who can't opt out is when I tend to start to become somewhat radgy.

[ProfessorDavey]

Agreed. I had the freedom to decide whether to be circumcised or not. Unfortunately, had my parents been snip happy when I was a baby, I would not have that freedom. There is no justification for circumcision without the circumcisee's consent except for medical reasons and that is the end of the argument.

Agreed.

Outlawing infant circumcision (except for medical reasons) doesn't prevent anyone from being circumcised if they so choose. It would prevent many people being unable to choose not to be circumcised.

[Rhiannon]

Actually opting to choose circumcision as an adult sends a powerful message about a man's choice and faith. Isn't that preferable anyway?

[Shaker]

Actually opting to choose circumcision as an adult sends a powerful message about a man's choice and faith. Isn't that preferable anyway?

Apparently not.

Apparently it's such a good thing that it has to be pressed upon those who not only didn't ask for it but cannot do so.

This is OK with some people, apparently.

[jeremyp]

https://www.the-american-interest.com/2012/06/26/german-court-declares-judaism-a-crime/

How is banning circumcision of babies banning Judaism?

[jeremyp]

No. Stop respecting insane shit foisted on those who didn't ask for insane shit.

Observe the question mark. It really makes s difference to how you read Rhiannon's post.

[Shaker]

How is banning circumcision of babies banning Judaism?

I feel I can help you there.

It isn't.

[Shaker]

Observe the question mark. It really makes s difference to how you read Rhiannon's post.

You've a different interpretation to me.

Mine was 'fuck that shit, no way'.

Your mileage of course may differ.

[jeremyp]

You've a different interpretation to me.

Mine was 'fuck that shit, no way'.

Your mileage of course may differ.

"That should be respected."

"That should be respected?"

The first is a statement, the second is a question. The first is an endorsement of circumcision, the second is questioning  the idea that we should respect cutting bits off babies for religious reasons.

[Keith Maitland]

There is one other factor influencing the rate of circumcision in the USA which I don't think has been mentioned. And this is profoundly affected by culture.

It is a nice little earner.

Of course American clinicians would enthuse about the health benefits of mutilating little boys - the practice pays for their holidays (or whatever).

Yes... And I would add that in America, logical, reasoned, fact-backed arguments detailing why circumcison should not be practiced on minors will make NO headway, particularly since many hearing these arguments are circumcised males who do not wish to reimagine themselves as sexually mutilated victims of a primitive ritual -- ("MY John Thomas works just fine for that purpose, thank you!)

[Shaker]

"That should be respected."

"That should be respected?"

The first is a statement, the second is a question.

A rhetorical one. In the latter case I thought the "Bollocks to that" was pretty clearly implied, not least on the basis of Rhiannon's previous contributions to the thread.

[wigginhall]

It's just child abuse, isn't it?   Well, child abuse has been justified through the ages.

[floo]

One presumes the foreskin is there to protect the tip of the penis. Or did god create it especially so a baby would suffer pain, and possibly infection, when it was hacked off?

[ad_orientem]

How is banning circumcision of babies banning Judaism?

It's not. Neither is it necessary becsuse according to the scriptures the Jews didn't circumcise during the exodus.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No. Stop respecting insane shit foisted on those who didn't ask for insane shit.

Oh the irony.

Maybe the order should go. Judaism drops circumcision...Secular Humanism, sundry atheism, naturalistic pantheism drops it's Stalinism.

[floo]

Oh the irony.

Maybe the order should go. Judaism drops circumcision...Secular Humanism, sundry atheism, naturalistic pantheism drops it's Stalinism.

You don't half say some daft things, which give the impression you are high on something most of the time!