An Awkward Question

[ad_orientem]

Eh?

[trippymonkey]

Well SOMETHING was there & kept us moving around then NOTHING. What we call death.

[Robbie]

Ad_o it would be really helpful if you'd take the time to explain things from the Orthodox point of view.
Others do that.
Answering questions  briefly& dismissively is rather....arrogant.
Also gives the impression you don't know the answers.

[Owlswing]

Ad_o it would be really helpful if you'd take the time to explain things from the Orthodox point of view.
Others do that.
Answering questions  briefly& dismissively is rather....arrogant.
Also gives the impression you don't know the answers.

Fair do's to Ad_O he/she (I've never quite fathomed which he/she is, he, I think tho') does explain things from am Orthodox point of view, but as if he were talking to some who follows the Christian faith in one form or another and thus when he quotes a biblical reference he assumes that we all understand what he is talking about.

I, personally, left Christianity, Anglican High Church, behind 56 years ago, so unless the Biblical reference has some resonance or connection with Paganism and/or witchcraft it usually means nothing to me. When I say resonance or connection I mean something like the impossibility of reconciling Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

[Robbie]

Thanks Owlswing & you could be right, i haven't been here that long & maybe he has explained things exhaustively in the past.
Didn't mean to have a go ad_o but when you replied to a question with,"Eh?", i thought that was insufficient.

The Orthodox position, for anyone who doesn't know, on funeral rites is that they not only help those left behind but help the deceased's spirit on it's way to Paradise.  In my view, for those who believe, the readings, psalms and hymns are comforting and helpful in the gradual process of mourning. 

Most of all, the Orthodox funeral service is independent of how anyone feels about the deceased, in that sense it's neutral and performed for any person regardless of what they may have done.

The Catholic requiem Mass serves same purpose.

Now Owlswing I going to google Exodus 22:18 and compare it with the sixth commandment - but that's for another discussion.

[Owlswing]

Now Owlswing I going to google Exodus 22:18 and compare it with the sixth commandment - but that's for another discussion.

It always is, it always is . . . .

[Aruntraveller]

Honestly Trent - I really thought that you had, one, a thicker skin than that, and two, were inviting the opinions of the adherents of all faiths and none.

Eh?

I wasn't inviting the opinion of anyone. I wasn't the originator of this thread. My skins plenty think enough. It's other people's comprehension I question, not to mention their understanding of what a forum is about. 

[DaveM]

When I say resonance or connection I mean something like the impossibility of reconciling Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Impossible? Why?

[floo]

Impossible? Why?

'Thou shalt not kill' should apply to witches is too. What is wrong with a bit of 'double, double toil and trouble'? It is no worse than some of the nonsense attributed to Christianity like the, 'speaking in tongues', gobbledegook. That reminds me, my broomstick is in need of a service. 

[ippy]

Since the dead are just that, dead they wont know much about anything anyway and then let those that want to perform some sort of ceremony, ritual or service, do so, then perhaps everybody will be happy; just don't ask me or people that share my non-religious views to attend or contribute to costs of the burial, after all they are now the best kind of terrorist you can get.

ippy       

[floo]

Some Christians are against cremation as they believe the body needs to be intact to be raised from the dead!

[trippymonkey]

How literally ON earth, is that possible as the body begins to rot quickly after 'death'?
Do these peeps not think things through properly or what ?

[Nearly Sane]

How literally ON earth, is that possible as the body begins to rot quickly after 'death'?
Do these peeps not think things through properly or what ?

Magic!

[floo]

How literally ON earth, is that possible as the body begins to rot quickly after 'death'?
Do these peeps not think things through properly or what ?

It appears that they don't put their brains in gear!

[Robbie]

Since the dead are just that, dead they wont know much about anything anyway and then let those that want to perform some sort of ceremony, ritual or service, do so, then perhaps everybody will be happy; just don't ask me or people that share my non-religious views to attend or contribute to costs of the burial, after all they are now the best kind of terrorist you can get.

ippy     

You're quite safe ippy cos no-one will ask you to attend or give any money.

Some Christians are against cremation as they believe the body needs to be intact to be raised from the dead!

Who?  Catholics have been cremating for a long time, been to two Catholic funerals that ended up in the crem.  That's old hat.

How literally ON earth, is that possible as the body begins to rot quickly after 'death'?
Do these peeps not think things through properly or what ?

It's just a tradition trippymonkey, belief that though the flesh decays the spirit is intact & anyway no-one much from the Christian fraternity worries now about what happens to human remains.  Jews and Muslims probably want to retain some old traditions which don't hurt us.

 

'Thou shalt not kill' should apply to witches is too. What is wrong with a bit of 'double, double toil and trouble'? It is no worse than some of the nonsense attributed to Christianity like the, 'speaking in tongues', gobbledegook. That reminds me, my broomstick is in need of a service. 

I daresay in OT times people had extreme  ideas about witches because they were scared.

I've no idea what witches were like in those days, do you?

The OT also says a lot of other stuff but was written in a different time and culture, very basic, but suited the people then.  They were far worse without those rules.

Let's be thankful we live in more enlightened times!

[Owlswing]

 
I daresay in OT times people had extreme  ideas about witches because they were scared.

I've no idea what witches were like in those days, do you?

The OT also says a lot of other stuff but was written in a different time and culture, very basic, but suited the people then.  They were far worse without those rules.

Let's be thankful we live in more enlightened times!

1430 BCE to 1730 BCE - hardly OT times.

90,000women and men burnt alive for being witches on the orders of the Pope using Exodus 22:18 as justification and a fictional 'pact with the Devil' invented by Kramer and Spengler to turn witched into heretics so they could be burned - burning was the punishment for heresy NOT for being a witch.

A child in, say 1501, throws a stone at the senile old biddy who lives alone with her cats on the outer rim of the village, she mutters something about 'nasty little bastard' under her breath. a week later the boy dies! Coincidence? Probably, but she would almost certainly die as a witch for having killed the boy with a spell that she muttered when his srone hit her.

Exodus 22:18 takes precedence over the Sixth! But not only witches; adulterers are among quite along list of exceptions to the Sixth in the 'revealed word of God', which I am told the whole Bible, OT and NT, is!   

[ad_orientem]

Some Christians are against cremation as they believe the body needs to be intact to be raised from the dead!

No. That's not it. Our bodies could be ripped into a million pieces. That's not the problem. What we do believe is that burial reflects our hope in the resurrection. Lex orandi lex credendi. Besides, cremation is heathen.

[floo]

No. That's not it. Our bodies could be ripped into a million pieces. That's not the problem. What we do believe is that burial reflects our hope in the resurrection. Lex orandi lex credendi. Besides, cremation is heathen.

I definitely don't wish to be resurrected, I hope death means death, no afterlife.

[Harrowby Hall]

1430 BCE to 1730 BCE - hardly OT times.

Are you really sure about that?

[Robbie]

1430 BCE to 1730 BCE - hardly OT times.

90,000women and men burnt alive for being witches on the orders of the Pope using Exodus 22:18 as justification and a fictional 'pact with the Devil' invented by Kramer and Spengler to turn witched into heretics so they could be burned - burning was the punishment for heresy NOT for being a witch.

A child in, say 1501, throws a stone at the senile old biddy who lives alone with her cats on the outer rim of the village, she mutters something about 'nasty little bastard' under her breath. a week later the boy dies! Coincidence? Probably, but she would almost certainly die as a witch for having killed the boy with a spell that she muttered when his srone hit her.

Exodus 22:18 takes precedence over the Sixth! But not only witches; adulterers are among quite along list of exceptions to the Sixth in the 'revealed word of God', which I am told the whole Bible, OT and NT, is!   

We do have a shameful history Owlswing. None of us can deny that.
Not only what you state here but the Crusades.
Christians against Christians too. Persecution of groups like the Quakers.

Terrible persecution of Jews.

I am sorry about that.

None of that would happen now but there are still Christians who justify particular points of view by referring to the OT.

However we do not live in the dark ages Owlswing, we have religious freedom& will do all we can to protect it.

(Not concerning Christians but extremist Muslims justify some of what they do by citing Q'ranic texts and Hadiths.)

[Owlswing]

Are you really sure about that?

OH F*** - Thanks HH - should, of course, read 1430 CE to 1730 CE!

[Owlswing]

I wouldn't be too sure about that!

Really Floo?

Any Christian who quotes the Ten Cammandments to justify any behaviour is using the OT as justification!

Like, I think, that marriage must be between one man  and one woman.

[floo]

Really Floo?

Any Christian who quotes the Ten Cammandments to justify any behaviour is using the OT as justification!

Like, I think, that marriage must be between one man  and one woman.

I have removed my post I misread Robinson's post, my senility is getting worse! Of course some Christians justify their nastiness by referring to the OT.

[jeremyp]

I already explained this. We believe that it helps ease the transition of the soul from this life to the next.

So no actual benefit to the dead.

[ad_orientem]

So no actual benefit to the dead.

Only in your opinion but you don't get to decide that for others.