An Awkward Question

[jeremyp]

1430 BCE to 1730 BCE - hardly OT times.

Huh?

Should that be

1430 CE to 1730 CE

[jeremyp]

Only in your opinion but you don't get to decide that for others.

Go on then, give us some evidence that funerals benefit the dead.

Your assertion about your belief is only evidence that a funeral benefits the living by providing them with some comfort that they have helped the dead on their way. However, it's totally illogical. Why would God set things up so that a funeral makes things better for the dead person?

[Shaker]

Only in your opinion but you don't get to decide that for others.

For the non-irrational evidence does that.

[ad_orientem]

Go on then, give us some evidence that funerals benefit the dead.

Your assertion about your belief is only evidence that a funeral benefits the living by providing them with some comfort that they have helped the dead on their way. However, it's totally illogical. Why would God set things up so that a funeral makes things better for the dead person?

The Church prays that God might ease the departed souls journey to the next life for we believe in a merciful God. It is all about grace. If you have no knowledge of grace I wouldn't expect you to understand.

[Shaker]

The Church prays that God might ease the departed souls journey to the next life for we believe in a merciful God. It is all about grace. If you have no knowledge of grace I wouldn't expect you to understand.

No ... he said evidence.

[Shaker]

Might I ask why, when we 'die' does our spirit, for want of a better word, not just suddenly appear IN the other life?

Nick

Magic.

[ad_orientem]

Might I ask why, when we 'die' does our spirit, for want of a better word, not just suddenly appear IN the other life?

Nick

For that you would need to know more about theosis. It is a process of becoming in union with God. This process continues after death if we have not attained to it in this life. Only when it is completed are we able to be in the presence of God.

[jeremyp]

The Church prays that God might ease the departed souls journey to the next life for we believe in a merciful God. It is all about grace. If you have no knowledge of grace I wouldn't expect you to understand.

So God, in his infinite wisdom might forget to ease the departed soul's journey unless you have a funeral.

Your God's a bit shit isn't he.

[jeremyp]

For that you would need to know more about theosis. It is a process of becoming in union with God. This process continues after death if we have not attained to it in this life. Only when it is completed are we able to be in the presence of God.

And you know this how?

Evidence please, not just beliefs.

[ad_orientem]

So God, in his infinite wisdom might forget to ease the departed soul's journey unless you have a funeral.

Your God's a bit shit isn't he.

That's not quite what I said.

[Bubbles]

You miss the point. For instance Chistians believe that the funeral rites are most definitely for the benefit of the deceased. Or are you going to gainsay that?

Yes. From what I was reading it is prayers that was being refused.

It was praying for the terrorist's  souls that God would look on them favourably, that was being denied.

Apparently at an Islamic funeral it is normal to pray for the souls of the deceased.



https://islamqa.info/en/763

[Bubbles]

So we're relatively imperfect, even in 'spirit form'?

Christianity thinks that too.

Both RC and orthodox seem to do it.

http://www.ourcatholicprayers.com/prayers-for-the-deceased.html

The Imams refused to use intercessionary prayers for the terrorists, which meant not doing the funeral.  It's called Janazah

[Bubbles]

What kind of a god is susceptible to prayer?

The Abrahamic one

No more weird than other forms really

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_32.html

[Bubbles]

So in its infinite wisdom it can sort of 'change its mind'
So it doesn't always make what we might call the 'right decision' first time?

Lots of cultures go through rituals and prayers to help the deceased on their journey.

It's not new.

Anyway, it gives the living something to do.

It's not weird just because Muslims do it, most of the world does it in one form of another.

[floo]

The Church prays that God might ease the departed souls journey to the next life for we believe in a merciful God. It is all about grace. If you have no knowledge of grace I wouldn't expect you to understand.

If you believe in a merciful god you must wear rose coloured specs when reading the Bible. The god character is far from merciful, just the opposite, in fact.

[Owlswing]

The Church prays that God might ease the departed souls journey to the next life for we believe in a merciful God. It is all about grace. If you have no knowledge of grace I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Merciful?

To paraphrase Stephen Fry - Any God who would inflict cancer on children is NOT merciful; he is a monster, a vindictive sadist. 

[ad_orientem]

Why would I care what Stephen Fry has to say? The geezer's full of himself.

[Owlswing]

Why would I care what Stephen Fry has to say? The geezer's full of himself.

As, my dear Ad_O are you!

You care more for your God and his unpleasant bastardry than the suffering of children.

[ad_orientem]

As, my dear Ad_O are you!

You care more for your God and his unpleasant bastardry than the suffering of children.

Why is anyone or thing allowed to suffer? But then that is one of the great mysteries of this life.

[Shaker]

Why is anyone or thing allowed to suffer? But then that is one of the great mysteries of this life.

It's vastly less of a mystery than why some clowns posit a god who (a) created this state of affairs, (b) didn't create it but allows it to exist or (c) is such a waste of space that it can't prevent it.

Now that is a mystery.

[trippymonkey]

MMMM
So let's just ignore it eh?? - LALALALA I'm not listening !!
It all says so much more about the person than any gods.

[ad_orientem]

Who said anything about ignoring except you?

[trippymonkey]

So what do YOU feel is the reason YOUR god seems to cause or at least IGNORE these awful things

?Why is anyone or thing allowed to suffer? But then that is one of the great mysteries of this life.?

[ad_orientem]

The reason why there is suffering in the world is Adam's sin. As fpr why God allows it, at least this side of the Parousia, I can only speculate. God knew creation would fall even before the foundation of the world but he also knew that through the resurrection of Christ creation would be redeemed and lifted even higher than it was before the fall.

[trippymonkey]

MMM Seems you're quite prepared to believe Christian mythology but nobody else's eh?
Oh, of course, the Bible is 100% true, isn't it?
Isn't it?