An Awkward Question

[floo]

The reason why there is suffering in the world is Adam's sin. As fpr why God allows it, at least this side of the Parousia, I can only speculate. God knew creation would fall even before the foundation of the world but he also knew that through the resurrection of Christ creation would be redeemed and lifted even higher than it was before the fall.

Your post has just proved how evil your god is!

[Nearly Sane]

Your post has just proved how evil your god is!

Evil, no, illogical yes

[floo]

Evil, no, illogical yes

If god knew, when it supposedly created human nature, all the suffering it would cause, that makes god evil in my opinion.

[Nearly Sane]

If god knew, when it supposedly created human nature, all the suffering it would cause, that makes god evil in my opinion.

Which presupposes that there is a better way with less evil. Which is the logic problem not an issue about evil.

[floo]

Which presupposes that there is a better way with less evil. Which is the logic problem not an issue about evil.

Hmmmmmmmm!

[Shaker]

The reason why there is suffering in the world is Adam's sin.

Jackanory starts early these days doesn't it?

[jeremyp]

That's not quite what I said.

I can't see any other way of interpreting it without bending logic beyond breaking point.

[jeremyp]

Why would I care what Stephen Fry has to say? The geezer's full of himself.

That doesn't mean he is wrong on this point.

[jeremyp]

The reason why there is suffering in the world is Adam's sin. As fpr why God allows it, at least this side of the Parousia, I can only speculate. God knew creation would fall even before the foundation of the world

So God knew there would be immense suffering if he went ahead and created the World. but he still did it anyway.

Your God is a shit.

[Shaker]

Which presupposes that there is a better way with less evil. Which is the logic problem not an issue about evil.

... which better way a traditional omni-everything god would know, want and be able to bring about, obviously. Lots of people desire no suffering in the world, but while that takes care of benevolence, people are handicapped by the lack of omniscience and omnipotence - that lack doesn't apply to a traditional god.

Of course, to escape the watertight logic of this you have to chop off one of the legs of the tripod.

[jeremyp]

Which presupposes that there is a better way with less evil. Which is the logic problem not an issue about evil.

Not creating the Universe at all would have resulted in less suffering.

[Shaker]

Not creating the Universe at all would have resulted in less suffering.

... or creating the universe but without suffering in it, which wouldn't be a stretch for an omnimax god

[Nearly Sane]

Not creating the Universe at all would have resulted in less suffering.

And you have an absolute calculus on that? Off you go then.

[Nearly Sane]

... or creating the universe but without suffering in it, which wouldn't be a stretch for an omnimax god

Is It? Maybe this is the best is all possible worlds?

[Shaker]

Is It? Maybe this is the best is all possible worlds?

If you can imagine a better, then it clearly isn't.

Voltaire did a number on that old one a long time ago, of course

[Nearly Sane]

If you can imagine a better, then it clearly isn't.

Voltaire did a number on that old one a long time ago, of course

?indeed  - so show that it is better. Ah you didn't so assertion

[trippymonkey]

Are we all assuming THE GOD made all this & not some minor deity having a BAD DAY ?!?!?

I believe there's a phrase for this thought. NS Don't say it !!!

[Owlswing]

Why is anyone or thing allowed to suffer? But then that is one of the great mysteries of this life.

No mystery at all! It is because the God of the Christians is a sadistic bastard who revels in getting and keeping his followers by threats of the most unpleasant tortures as punishment if the do not kneel berfore him and do exactly what he says no matter how evil are the things he tells them to do!

[trippymonkey]

All the 'Semitic' religions have used terror & hate to keep their 'slaves' in check.
None of which can be proved to be of any good whatsoever !!!

[Nearly Sane]

All the 'Semitic' religions have used terror & hate to keep their 'slaves' in check.
None of which can be proved to be of any good whatsoever !!!

And yet slavery is not something that is unique to them, and is something that followers of those religions have campaigned against.

[Nearly Sane]

Agreed but I didn't mean the type of slavery such as stealing Africans etc.
I meant the way in which these 3 religions have treated their adherents & what may happen if they leave or, Heaven Forbid, preach against it !!!

Religions don't treat people, people do. My mum gave me some cake yesterday, that seems quite pleasant even though she is religious and I am not. 

[Nearly Sane]

'People' will do anything if they can 'blame' it on some other dubious character.
Human nature.
Islam is a direct reflection of the Muslim mind & politics of its invention then. IS are only carrying on what Islam's founder did then.

What is the 'Muslim mind'? Is it somehow different to other people's minds? Are Gabriella and I different in terms of having different types of mind?

[Nearly Sane]

To a degree yes as you're not a Muslim - well I THINK not but....
Although I would never say ALL Muslims think alike as we'd have IS wallies all over the place.

So what is a 'Muslim mind'?

[Nearly Sane]

Islam itself, technically, is the Muslim mind. But you know as well as I do that THAT'S not always the case. It's amusing that so many Muslims leave what we might call Islamic countries to go to NON-Islamic ones for a better life.
They then create mini Islamic states there with Halal butchering & implications of their own law/Sharia groups etc. Try any of these things 'our' way ie Christian, in, say, Syria & Pakistan to some degree & you'll soon get told what to do.
These can all be checked out on the net.

So people create Islam and then that changes them? How does that work then?

[jeremyp]

And you have an absolute calculus on that? Off you go then.

If there are no people to suffer, there can be no suffering.

Job done.