West London Fire

[floo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40298473

I think they should be demanding answers a bit higher up than the town hall, like a house with number 10 on the door!

[Rhiannon]

I'd have thought post-hoc visits by both an incompetent lame duck PM and a mega-rich elderly person who has had a long life of privilege at public expense is of no value whatsoever given the immediate needs of those affected.
   

I doubt very much that it could possibly make things worse though, which is what your comment implied.

[Rhiannon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40298473

I think they should be demanding answers a bit higher up than the town hall, like a house with number 10 on the door!

Rightly or wrongly a lot of the decisions made were in the hands of the local authority, not the government. You could argue that the 'bonfire of red tape' led to this (although May wasn't PM at the time) but the failings by the LA weren't just to do with the watered down regulation, but in failing to act on the things that needed to be done and that could have been acted on - clearing rubbish for example, or ensuring road access.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Boris Johnson accuses labour of politicking over Grenfell House. This man gives the impression that he can float above anything. Many careers will have bit the dust over this...it must be the final nail in May's and Siddiques. There is no reason why Johnson, Mayor of London until 2016 should get away with floating turd-like above this.

Source The Guardian.

[Ricky Spanish]

Sorry, do we have evidence for that yet? It did apparently pass a fire inspection before it went on.

There seems to be a lot of speculation on this thread. I think we should really find out what happened before we start lynching people.

Are you ready to eat your words yet?

[Rhiannon]

This isn't looking good.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-residents-kensington-town-hall-fire-demand-answers-protest-council-chelsea-borough-a7793906.html

[Ricky Spanish]

Why is this important?

There is much evidence that "the political decision to appoint inquiries into public crises is strongly influenced by short-term blame avoidance considerations, media salience and government popularity." (Reflection in the Shadow of Blame: When Do Politicians Appoint Commissions of Inquiry? - The British Journal of Political Science, Volume 40, Issue 3 July 2010, pp. 613-634).

An event such as the Grenfell Tower fire, with its clear implications of Government Minister involvement and possible culpability, requires an inquest which is truly independent of government; not set up and controlled by the government.



https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/an-inquest-not-a-public-inquiry-for-the-grenfell-tower-fires

[Bubbles]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/man-arrested-for-opening-body-bags-and-taking-pictures-of-grenfell-victims-6709772/

 

[floo]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/man-arrested-for-opening-body-bags-and-taking-pictures-of-grenfell-victims-6709772/

 

If true, that is HORRIBLE!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Freedland in the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/grenfell-tower-rebuke-right-rampant-inequality

[Ricky Spanish]

Sorry, do we have evidence for that yet? It did apparently pass a fire inspection before it went on.

There seems to be a lot of speculation on this thread. I think we should really find out what happened before we start lynching people.

Ready to apologise and eat your words yet?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grenfell-tower-fire-investigation-findings-may-not-be-published-for-years/ar-BBCN4mb?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

[jeremyp]

I think the criminal investigation has been launched because the cladding used was no longer legal for use on a tower block.

There's a very real possibility that somebody has been criminally negligent. Maybe because of the panels, maybe for some other reason.

[jeremyp]

I'd have thought post-hoc visits by both an incompetent lame duck PM and a mega-rich elderly person who has had a long life of privilege at public expense is of no value whatsoever given the immediate needs of those affected.
   

The Queen is our Head of State and I think it is entirely appropriate if she wants to visit and show support for the surviving victims.

Theresa May is the Chief Executive of this country and she bears ultimate responsibility for the safety of its citizens. It's very likely that the investigations into what went wrong will show inadequacies in legislation pertaining to fire safety. Again, it's entirely appropriate that she should visit the victims, although, personally, I can understand why she might not want to in the current climate of hate.

Your original remark was pretty mean spirited.

[Robbie]

It was OTT for sure. Virulent personal prejudice let loose. Disappointing.
Still it's over now.

[jeremyp]

Are you ready to eat your words yet?

Why should I eat my words? I'm not claiming the panels were not to blame, only that we do not know if they are and we should stop lashing out at any target seeking to heap the blame on people we do not like.

[Robbie]

Freedland in the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/grenfell-tower-rebuke-right-rampant-inequality

E-t-M, it doesn't surprise me. The investigation into the fire at block of flats in Camberwell took years. Eventually Southwark Council admitted liability.
There is more publicity, horror and outrage at this on though so public opinion may demand quicker answers.

[jeremyp]

An event such as the Grenfell Tower fire, with its clear implications of Government Minister involvement and possible culpability,

What clear implications that any government minister was involved in this?

[Robbie]

I don't think there is any. We don't yet know.
Indifference and sloppiness on behalf of the local authority, the planners and builders.
We will find out in due course.

[floo]

What clear implications that any government minister was involved in this?

I bet TM is wetting herself in case it is discovered, without any doubt, one of her team knew about the concerns raised appertaining to the safety of the tower block, but sat on the information.

[jeremyp]

I bet TM is wetting herself in case it is discovered, without any doubt, one of her team knew about the concerns raised appertaining to the safety of the tower block, but sat on the information.

What are you raving about? If one of her team turns out to be culpable in part for the tragedy, she just fires him.

[floo]

What are you raving about? If one of her team turns out to be culpable in part for the tragedy, she just fires him.

TM is already in the deep proverbial, so she would more than likely get the blame, even if she didn't know about it.

[jeremyp]

TM is already in the deep proverbial, so she would more than likely get the blame, even if she didn't know about it.

I don't see how it could make things any worse for her than they already are.

[Bubbles]

One of the things I though was shocking was that the council sent a threatening letter by solicitor to one person when they brought up fire regulations at Grenfell.

This was before all this happened. They really didn't want to discuss it or have it discussed.
Not that they can stop people now.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-blogger-threatened-legal-action-kensington-and-chelsea-council-health-safety-a7792346.html

[Bubbles]

Well Kensington council seem to be busy ATM, irritating the rest of the tenants in a neighbouring tower block.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-tenant-company-kensington-residents-legal-action-neighbouring-flats-ball-games-a7793966.html

You would think they would have had the sense not to send threatening letters though about ball games, while feelings are running high enough as it is.

Seems to me, this particular council doesn't have a lot of sense!

Imagine having members of your community die in these circumstances only to receive this letter  a few days later.

Wow! How tactless is that?