Author Topic: West London Fire  (Read 19795 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #150 on: June 20, 2017, 06:12:03 PM »
Good for Mr Murray


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40341340


Looks like it might not be that much of a contribution

Rhiannon

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #151 on: June 20, 2017, 06:53:33 PM »
Oh dear. He meant well.

Robbie

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #152 on: June 20, 2017, 07:22:00 PM »
Such a shame bless him.
He must have earned something from his one game, he can donate that.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #153 on: June 20, 2017, 07:42:38 PM »
£10,000

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #154 on: June 21, 2017, 08:43:26 AM »
Conservative line now against grief being hijacked by protests. Whereas Conservatives would have us leave victims to be and forget about the whole thing. Spot the cynical manipulation of grief.

Gonnagle

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #155 on: June 21, 2017, 11:39:41 AM »
Dear Forum,

Don't know if someone else has highlighted this but another mention won't hurt.

https://artistsforgrenfell.com/

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2017, 01:50:50 PM »
The restaurant/bar nearest to me is having a fund raising night for Grenfell Tower. I can't recall any similar nights that they have held for specific incidents. They have collections at their weekly quiz night and on occasion it will be for something in the news but this is a full evening of events. Something about this perhaps that high rises are so common has touched people in a deeper more universal way. In many ways, I think this is why the reaction from the council and to an extent from govt has been seen as so unsatisfactory.

As with all such things, it is impossible to predict any long term effects but politicians estimate this at their peril.

Rhiannon

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2017, 01:55:15 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2017, 02:00:22 PM »
Breaking news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40357280

Great news, I had heard that a developer had offered flats but there were issues about whether it meant that it being a temporary offer removed people from the council needing to provide longer term housing. Let's hope whatever has happened here is fully backed up.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #159 on: June 21, 2017, 02:20:32 PM »
I see the updated story is saying this could be permanent. Kudos if this us true to whoever achieves it

Robbie

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #160 on: June 21, 2017, 08:50:24 PM »
I saw it on the news a bit earlier, it's marvellous.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Shaker

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #161 on: June 21, 2017, 08:53:08 PM »
People at their compassionate best.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #162 on: June 22, 2017, 11:43:34 AM »
So the cladding is combustible and there are 600 high flats with the cladding in England!!!!

Rhiannon

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #163 on: June 22, 2017, 11:49:45 AM »
I think there was this naive idea that fire would never reach the cladding. Also the drive for energy efficiency/insulation seems to have played a part.

floo

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #164 on: June 22, 2017, 11:51:59 AM »
So the cladding is combustible and there are 600 high flats with the cladding in England!!!!

That is going to take a good while to fix, one hopes there isn't another terrible tragedy before it is sorted out.

Nearly Sane

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Rhiannon

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #167 on: June 23, 2017, 08:07:40 AM »
Not everyone is happy about the rehousing



http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/outrage-as-luxury-flat-residents-complain-rehomed-grenfell-families-will-lower-house-prices-a3570331.html

And rightly been vilified for it. As has been pointed out, there was social housing earmarked for the development anyway.

What I don't know is if those who had bought their flats under right to buy also get rehoused in the same way.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #168 on: June 23, 2017, 08:10:29 AM »
I thought it was 'affordable' housing rather than social housing that was the original plan?

Bubbles

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2017, 08:17:14 AM »
The flats where the victims were being relocated to weren't just ordinary flats, they had things like a gym and swimming pool which residents paid extra for.
Obviously the victims won't get that, but they weren't being supplied standard flats even posh standard flats hence the objections.

The objection was that they were " exclusive" luxury flats.

Those people would have objected to anyone being put in there.



 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:19:34 AM by Rose »

Rhiannon

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #170 on: June 23, 2017, 08:19:50 AM »
I thought it was 'affordable' housing rather than social housing that was the original plan?

You might be right. Even so, I still think that the objections are staggering.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2017, 08:27:40 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/23/sajid-javid-grenfell-has-shaken-my-comprehension-of-being-in-office
That seems a pretty honest assessment. I think that in day to day management a cabinet minister's role is not to fuck anything up too badly. The tragedy of Grenfell is that it may well be possible that individual ministers and govts managed to not fuck up too badly but a combination of small fuck uos led to this. It is hard to then know how you avoid such thungs.

I think May is right that there is a need to change the attitude to social housing but that is an area where there have always been problems. It's difficult to see how you magic a change which avoids small scale individual decisions having a cumulative effect. It's obvious that for many decision makers, this will be a hugely affecting moment but how that plays out isn't easy to know. Iain Duncan Smith claimed a road to Damascus moment but that leas to grandiose ideas and the culpable deaths of many in his time at Welfare.


I read in Javid's comments a worry that we are just a bit shite at making relatively small decisions, and that this easily leads us to making huge mistakes in more complex areas. Dan Hannan wrote a piece, that I will try to find, saying that perhaps despite the tragedy, it wasn't indicative of some great evil, and he may be right but that then means the helplessness of inability to understand the impact of decisions reigns.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #172 on: June 23, 2017, 08:29:45 AM »
You might be right. Even so, I still think that the objections are staggering.
Don't disagree but there is a habit of some politicians to conflate the figures of affordable/social housing to make it look as if they are doing lots. And by some politicians, I mean Boris Johnson.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #173 on: June 23, 2017, 08:47:47 AM »
Here is Hannan's article that I referred to earlier. In many ways I don't disagree with it but given when it was written it is to my mind a deliberate choice to present a more nuanced version of the the hypocritical 'let's not politicise this' trotted out by those who believe they atye most likely to be found culpable.

I also note his own hypocrisy as regards expertise here and in the EU referendum. I think he's right that it would not necessarily be the case that residents need to have what they say enforced, bit wring to present that as the same as that they need to be listened to

https://capx.co/grenfell-tower-a-great-tragedy-is-not-always-proof-of-great-wickedness/
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 09:01:51 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #174 on: June 23, 2017, 02:01:30 PM »
So Hotpoint join the list of those in the stocks. I wonder how anyone living in a high rise with possibly dodgy cladding and this fridge freezer tells just now. My mother lives on the 9th floor of a high rise, but their current problem is asbestos!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40380584