Author Topic: West London Fire  (Read 19744 times)

jeremyp

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #225 on: June 29, 2017, 05:55:40 PM »
I doubt you have any idea what someone who has had family members burnt to death believe but lying needs intent and merely by repeating that you think there is or describing an effect such as poisoning the well, doesn't show it. Indeed if you think that you are showing it by claiming it then it is a circular argument.
Sorry, I can't parse that. Please write it in English.

Quote
Hyperbole isn't lying either, and you have ignored the difference in the legal and colloquial sense of murder.

Please reread my post. I said the residents use is hyperbole. They are understandably distraught but a politician needs to be more considered. This man knew it wasn't murder. He is using the term for political gain.
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Shaker

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #226 on: June 29, 2017, 06:00:36 PM »
He is using the term for political gain.
I can only say that you seem to be unacquainted with politics, as in, that thing which politicians do.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jeremyp

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #227 on: June 29, 2017, 06:05:05 PM »
The problem is that in order to investigate the 'establishment' , we turn to the 'establishment'.

That is not the problem according to the story that was posted. On survivor said they need a judge of criminal law. This is certainly not the case - the police prosecutions will need and get that. Others have pointed to his judgement of a case of a single mother where he ruled Westminster Council could rehouse her in Milton Keynes. That casts doubt on his judgement, not the establishment in general. 
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jeremyp

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #228 on: June 29, 2017, 06:06:54 PM »
I can only say that you seem to be unacquainted with politics, as in, that thing which politicians do.
Whipping up a mob frenzy is the wrong way to do political gain.
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Shaker

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #229 on: June 29, 2017, 06:11:35 PM »
Whipping up a mob frenzy is the wrong way to do political gain.
It isn't "whipping up a mob frenzy". Nearly Sane has, to my mind, more than adequately explained why it isn't.

And on a purely personal, nothing-whatever-to-do-with-Nearly-Sane level, I'm not remotely convinced that  a "mob frenzy" is always and in every last instance such a bad thing anyway.
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jeremyp

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #230 on: June 29, 2017, 06:13:48 PM »
It isn't "whipping up a mob frenzy". Nearly Sane has, to my mind, more than adequately explained why it isn't.
Why did he incorrectly call it "murder" then?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #231 on: June 29, 2017, 06:16:07 PM »
Why did he incorrectly call it "murder" then?
Because it has a colliquial as well as legal meaning. why do you keep ignoring that?

Shaker

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #232 on: June 29, 2017, 06:16:19 PM »
Why did he incorrectly call it "murder" then?
Been there, done that. (Not me - Nearly Sane).
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #233 on: June 29, 2017, 06:38:06 PM »

While I applaud his honesty, I can't see how the inquiry can be successful if it isn't at least close to what the victims and relatives want.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40446579

floo

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #234 on: June 30, 2017, 05:39:04 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40461581

The Kensington and Chelsea council leader has resigned.

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #235 on: July 01, 2017, 01:08:54 AM »
When you start trying to stop transparency and kill expression, of course you are done
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 01:18:33 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #236 on: July 01, 2017, 12:26:17 PM »
I think in some ways the council were in an impossible position but it doesn't play well to whinge about it.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40465494
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 12:30:24 PM by Nearly Sane »

floo

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #237 on: July 02, 2017, 04:08:58 PM »

wigginhall

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #238 on: July 02, 2017, 04:29:00 PM »
Wow, the degree of mistrust now in the local area is becoming scary.    It's understandable with the local council, as they couldn't be seen for the first week.   But now everybody is being scorched up in this flamethrower of anger, the judge appointed to head the enquiry, the government, the police.   I don't know who they are going to trust, maybe Lammy, but probably not even him.   I think Khan got heckled.   I would advise Mrs May not to go down there at the moment, without a very heavy escort.

People are saying that Kensington and Chelsea council basically exist to help rich people get their bins cleared regularly, and their trees pruned, and poor people's blocks clad in nice shiny stuff, so as not to spoil the view.   Just a flavour of it.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 04:33:23 PM by wigginhall »
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wigginhall

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #239 on: July 02, 2017, 05:18:33 PM »
I forgot the local MP, who is working night and day, Emma Dent Coad.   
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #240 on: July 03, 2017, 04:34:46 PM »
Some thoughtful and interesting comments from Frankie Boyle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyFZX39joSM
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Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #241 on: July 03, 2017, 04:46:50 PM »
Some thoughtful and interesting comments from Frankie Boyle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyFZX39joSM

A lot of this ties in with my issues with Samantha Cameron on  the thread covering her comments about her disposable income, and the entirety of what has happened for years over Hillsborough and the complete and utter fuck up that has been the child abuse enquiry. It's not about a conspiracy just a generally traded 'truth' that scum are liars, and people not like us are scum.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #242 on: July 03, 2017, 05:13:44 PM »
NS,

Quote
A lot of this ties in with my issues with Samantha Cameron on  the thread covering her comments about her disposable income, and the entirety of what has happened for years over Hillsborough and the complete and utter fuck up that has been the child abuse enquiry. It's not about a conspiracy just a generally traded 'truth' that scum are liars, and people not like us are scum.

Quite. The causes of Grenfell are complex and the corporate manslaughter law is inadequate but, as FB says, all along the line decisions were made: to legislate for lower safety standards for materials than other countries have, to ignore people who said that a lethal fire would occur and even to threaten them with legal action if they persisted, to install gas plumbing in the stairwell because it was the cheaper option but not to install a sprinkler system etc, that were all cognisant that the extra profit also meant extra risk.

Only the people who paid for that risk were the tenants who were calling their loved ones to say goodbye as the fire worked upwards, not the scum who trousered the profits.

And which of those decision makers will go to pokey because of the choices they made? Don't hold your breath.       
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 05:19:34 PM by bluehillside »
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floo

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #243 on: July 27, 2017, 05:19:01 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40739424

The tower is to be covered in a protective wrap.

floo

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #244 on: July 27, 2017, 06:31:50 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40747241

Police reckon there is possible evidence to bring a corporate manslaughter charge over deaths arising from the fire.


Nearly Sane

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Re: West London Fire
« Reply #246 on: July 20, 2018, 08:52:52 AM »