London again ..... van hits mosque crowd

[Bubbles]

Terrorist

A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
‘four commercial aircraft were hijacked by terrorists’
‘a suspected terrorist’


The debatable bit is the " unlawful" bit.

Assuming ALL attacks on civilians by individuals is terrorism, regardless of if you agree with principals fought for or not.

Countries don't really qualify, but it can be difficult because countries are made up of individuals who sometimes are indistinguishable because they use those tactics and supporters in the same way.

In this way, all the people using vans to run people over, are terrorists.

[Bubbles]

Apparently the van was hired in Wales. Probably not even a Londoner.

Every now and then I glance at the comments on Yahoo news (don't ask me why) and the anti Muslim bile on there is staggering. Hate is very real. Most wankers who perpetuate this shit will never shift off their sofas long enough to do any physical harm, but they stoke the flames for the inadequate nut jobs that will.

I'm struck over and over by the pathetic nose picking wankery of these people. Like Newsthump says, the suicide terrorists get disappointed in heaven to find that their promised virgins are more terrorists. Of any kind.

I see no reason for him to be a Londoner at all.

London is just a target because it's the capital, just about everyone has heard of it.

It doesn't mean Londoners have a tendency for terrorism.

I never intended the title to imply it had something to do with the character of Londoners.

 

[Bubbles]

According to at least two witnesses on BBC there was more than just this one man in the van.

If so, why isn't it being reported and the police looking for the other two?

It seems a bit odd.

Apart from the two witnesses it seems to be being overlooked.

 

I know witnesses sometimes get it wrong, but two separate witnesses? There is no mention of others ( terrorists)being involved  in  the investigation.

Finsbury attack: 'Muslims don't feel safe'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40324279

Finsbury Park attack: 'He was shouting, I want to kill all Muslims'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40323698

Shouldn't  the police be looking for the others?

According to the independent.

"The force said it had found nothing to confirm witness reports that up to three men had been in the van before two fled, or that the driver was carrying a knife and stabbed victims."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/van-pedestrians-hit-run-over-casualties-latest-police-finsbury-park-mosque-muslims-seven-sisters-a7796551.html

Seriously?

What did it require to confirm there were more people in the van?

Video footage?

Says about it here too, but the police seem to dismiss it.

https://www.ft.com/content/2a02510a-548b-11e7-80b6-9bfa4c1f83d2

Seems odd perhaps the video that was shot only showed one, not sure.

[Sassy]

Do Muslims who are homosexual or  women fear for their lives in this country as they do their own?

We see the usual daft arguments but the facts are there should not be any religion or terrorist group attacking the Citizens of the UK
in their own country or demanding their laws to be allowed in practice here.

Whatever the reason... ALL THESE KILLINGS HOWEVER DONE ARE WRONG.

Arguing about the 'why's' and 'wherefore's' won't change these facts.

[trippymonkey]

Rose
Thanks for that great insight. 
Sass
Then what do you suggest?

Nick

[SweetPea]

Apparently the van was hired in Wales. Probably not even a Londoner.

Every now and then I glance at the comments on Yahoo news (don't ask me why) and the anti Muslim bile on there is staggering. Hate is very real. Most wankers who perpetuate this shit will never shift off their sofas long enough to do any physical harm, but they stoke the flames for the inadequate nut jobs that will.

I'm struck over and over by the pathetic nose picking wankery of these people. Like Newsthump says, the suicide terrorists get disappointed in heaven to find that their promised virgins are more terrorists. Of any kind.

I see what you're saying but also find it understandable that there is a level of anger and will be a dislike for those carrying out murderous attacks which have been continuing on and off for over 16 years.

[Nearly Sane]

According to at least two witnesses on BBC there was more than just this one man in the van.

If so, why isn't it being reported and the police looking for the other two?

It seems a bit odd.

Apart from the two witnesses it seems to be being overlooked.

 

I know witnesses sometimes get it wrong, but two separate witnesses? There is no mention of others ( terrorists)being involved  in  the investigation.

Finsbury attack: 'Muslims don't feel safe'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40324279

Finsbury Park attack: 'He was shouting, I want to kill all Muslims'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40323698

Shouldn't  the police be looking for the others?

According to the independent.

"The force said it had found nothing to confirm witness reports that up to three men had been in the van before two fled, or that the driver was carrying a knife and stabbed victims."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/van-pedestrians-hit-run-over-casualties-latest-police-finsbury-park-mosque-muslims-seven-sisters-a7796551.html

Seriously?

What did it require to confirm there were more people in the van?

Video footage?

Says about it here too, but the police seem to dismiss it.

https://www.ft.com/content/2a02510a-548b-11e7-80b6-9bfa4c1f83d2

Seems odd perhaps the video that was shot only showed one, not sure.

If it's on the BBC then it is being reported. And yes, two separate witnesses can make a similar mistake. Note that you then assume it as fact , when you say 'Shouldn't the police be looking for the others?', means you are dismissing all the other witnesses who say there was only one person. Why would you assume that the vast majority of the witnesses and the video footage and the statements of the police are wrong?

[Shaker]

I see what you're saying but also find it understandable that there is a level of anger and will be a dislike for those carrying out murderous attacks which have been continuing on and off for over 16 years.

Anger and dislike for those who carry out murderous attacks is entirely understandable. Futile, ultimately, but understandable.

Unfortunately what we're seeing from a lot of not very bright people (and goodness knows there's no shortage of those) is anger, dislike and worse of those who share an ethnic background and/or religion with those who carry out such attacks. I draw your attention to the Finsbury Park tragedy.

[SweetPea]

Yes.... it's very sad.

[floo]

I see what you're saying but also find it understandable that there is a level of anger and will be a dislike for those carrying out murderous attacks which have been continuing on and off for over 16 years.

There is nothing understandable about attacking innocent people!

[Rhiannon]

I see what you're saying but also find it understandable that there is a level of anger and will be a dislike for those carrying out murderous attacks which have been continuing on and off for over 16 years.

I dislike terrorists. I don't see what that has to do with anti Muslim sentiment.

[Aruntraveller]

There is nothing understandable about attacking innocent people!

This is a remarkably stupid comment.

Unless we try to understand why this happens we will never move forward.

It's as if our supplying arms to Saudi Arabia is a totally separate issue. They use those arms to bomb the Yemen - but that's nothing to do with our lily white hands. No blood here. These arms are being supplied by British companies with the full support of the UK government and  most of the country seem unaware that some of the hostility and consequences we face are due to our making money out of death.

The people in the Yemen who have been killed are every bit as innocent as victims here, but do we recognize that?

No we don't. We carry on making money.

Grubby, dirty, death-inflicting money. It's an absolute disgrace, and the kind of shallow thinking displayed on this thread by some posters makes me shudder.

[floo]

This is a remarkably stupid comment.

Unless we try to understand why this happens we will never move forward.

It's as if our supplying arms to Saudi Arabia is a totally separate issue. They use those arms to bomb the Yemen - but that's nothing to do with our lily white hands. No blood here. These arms are being supplied by British companies with the full support of the UK government and  most of the country seem unaware that some of the hostility and consequences we face are due to our making money out of death.

The people in the Yemen who have been killed are every bit as innocent as victims here, but do we recognize that?

No we don't. We carry on making money.

Grubby, dirty, death-inflicting money. It's an absolute disgrace, and the kind of shallow thinking displayed on this thread by some posters makes me shudder.

I stand by my comment!

[Aruntraveller]

I stand by my comment!

In which case we will never make any progress. I think you may be mistaking 'understanding' for 'excusing'.

[Robbie]

Trent & Rose, thank you for very good posts, i like the way you express things.

sassy good to see you! Wondered where you were.
You said - Do Muslims who are homosexual or  women fear for their lives in this country as they do their own?

For many Muslims, Sassy, this is their country, they know no other!

[floo]

In which case we will never make any progress. I think you may be mistaking 'understanding' for 'excusing'.

When people say that although it is wrong they understand, why someone would wish to harm all Muslims, in spite of the terrible crimes being perpetrated by extremists, it almost makes it acceptable to cause them harm, imo. It is as bad as claiming it is understandable for some to brand all homosexuals as paedophiles, just because some have sex with children.

[Robbie]

 

Homosexuls don't have sex with children, paedophiles do.

[floo]

Homosexuls don't have sex with children, paedophiles do.

Some homosexuals have sex with kids, as do heterosexuals. However, when it comes to paedophilia I have, times without number, seen anti-gay bigots blame them for that crime.

[Aruntraveller]

When people say that although it is wrong they understand, why someone would wish to harm all Muslims, in spite of the terrible crimes being perpetrated by extremists, it almost makes it acceptable to cause them harm, imo. It is as bad as claiming it is understandable for some to brand all homosexuals as paedophiles, just because some have sex with children.

I am saying you have to understand what motivates people to act in the way they do. If you don't, you stand not a snowball in hells chance of changing anything. If you understand the motivations of terrorists you can perhaps, and I grant you it is only perhaps, change the situation. But trying to change the situation is surely better than a blank 'they are all disgusting' response that I see here all too frequently without thinking through the consequences of our actions as a country.

[floo]

I am saying you have to understand what motivates people to act in the way they do. If you don't, you stand not a snowball in hells chance of changing anything. If you understand the motivations of terrorists you can perhaps, and I grant you it is only perhaps, change the situation. But trying to change the situation is surely better than a blank 'they are all disgusting' response that I see here all too frequently without thinking through the consequences of our actions as a country.

I understand the motivation of ISIS terrorists who have been brainwashed into doing what they think Allah requires of them. I understand the motivation of those of the extreme far right 'little Englander' mentality, who want to see an all white Britain. But understanding what makes these evil people tick isn't going to change anything, imo.

[Robbie]

Some homosexuals have sex with kids, as do heterosexuals. However, when it comes to paedophilia I have, times without number, seen anti-gay bigots blame them for that crime.

No they don't! People who have sex with children whether their own sex,opposite sex or both, are paedophiles. Blow what anti-gay bigotssay, they;re wrong.
Homosexuals and heterosexuals prefer adult company.

I understand the motivation of ISIS terrorists who have been brainwashed into doing what they think Allah requires of them. I understand the motivation of those of the extreme far right 'little Englander' mentality, who want to see an all white Britain. But understanding what makes these evil people tick isn't going to change anything, imo.

I don't know about that floo. Understanding the mentality/way of thinking is helpful in bringing about change. It takes a long time & not an exact science but is worth doing. No-one can negotiate with someone brainwashed into an ideal without understanding them and treating the issues that brought them to that place seriously. That includes acknowledging faults of those they propose to attack.

[SweetPea]

When people say that although it is wrong they understand, why someone would wish to harm all Muslims, in spite of the terrible crimes being perpetrated by extremists, it almost makes it acceptable to cause them harm, imo. It is as bad as claiming it is understandable for some to brand all homosexuals as paedophiles, just because some have sex with children.

Floo, you misunderstood what I meant. Sorry, if my post was not clear. I meant it is not surprising there is some backlash from some folk regards the terrorists. But some will say they dislike all Muslims because of the bad behaviour of a minority. It's how some people are, fortunately not everyone. 

[floo]

No they don't! People who have sex with children whether their own sex,opposite sex or both, are paedophiles. Blow what anti-gay bigotssay, they;re wrong.
Homosexuals and heterosexuals prefer adult company.

I don't know about that floo. Understanding the mentality/way of thinking is helpful in bringing about change. It takes a long time & not an exact science but is worth doing. No-one can negotiate with someone brainwashed into an ideal without understanding them and treating the issues that brought them to that place seriously. That includes acknowledging faults of those they propose to attack.

Of course anti-gay bigots are WRONG, did I say they weren't?

[floo]

Floo, you misunderstood what I meant. Sorry, if my post was not clear. I meant it is not surprising there is some backlash from some folk regards the terrorists. But some will say they dislike all Muslims because of the bad behaviour of a minority. It's how some people are, fortunately not everyone.

Sadly it might not be surprising if some blame all Muslims for the evil terrorists attacks, it doesn't mean the mind set of those who do in understandable/excusable.

[Aruntraveller]

I understand the motivation of ISIS terrorists who have been brainwashed into doing what they think Allah requires of them. I understand the motivation of those of the extreme far right 'little Englander' mentality, who want to see an all white Britain. But understanding what makes these evil people tick isn't going to change anything, imo.

So are we condemned to this terrorism forever or do you have another alternative?

Or are you going to stock with your disgusting/sick/perverted/animal line and think that outraged commenrs will somehow win the day?