London again ..... van hits mosque crowd

[Aruntraveller]

Where did I say that?

It seemed to be implied in your refusal to engage with the issues involved. If it is not the case I apologise.

[Nearly Sane]

One note on how we regard the IRA, is that reading Shaker's post where he notes he can reel off the atrocities, I am sure we all can. However,I doubt if we remember, and in many cases never saw, the lower level attacks and murders particularly in NI. Again in the days of rolling news, we have in depth coverage of incidents such as that at the Louvre which I doubt we would have seen in the 80s. Every violent nutter who shouts Allahu Akbar is an IS terrorist, but that wasn't the case for every attack or Proddy cunts or Fenian bastards in the 70s, 80s and through to the present.


And while I am off on this point, it's worth noting that there was terrorism from the UVF and others. I think we need to be careful about using the IRA as a cypher for all terrorism in relation to NI. Also I read a lot of posts on here, about Muslims and if you put in the word Catholics were things I heard growing up.

[Nearly Sane]

Where did I say that?

Surely implied in you saying you disagreed with trentvoyager when he was arguing for stopping doing so?

[floo]

I didn't imply it at all.

[Nearly Sane]

I didn't imply it at all.

in what way is saying you disagreed with trentvoyager's post arguing for stopping supplying such weapons to such regimes not implying it?

[floo]

If you say so, I know what I mean, even if no one else does.

[Nearly Sane]

If you say so, I know what I mean, even if no one else does.

in what way is asking you a question to explain your position, 'saying something'?

[Rhiannon]

One note on how we regard the IRA, is that reading Shaker's post where he notes he can reel off the atrocities, I am sure we all can. However,I doubt if we remember, and in many cases never saw, the lower level attacks and murders particularly in NI. Again in the days of rolling news, we have in depth coverage of incidents such as that at the Louvre which I doubt we would have seen in the 80s. Every violent nutter who shouts Allahu Akbar is an IS terrorist, but that wasn't the case for every attack or Proddy cunts or Fenian bastards in the 70s, 80s and through to the present.


And while I am off on this point, it's worth noting that there was terrorism from the UVF and others. I think we need to be careful about using the IRA as a cypher for all terrorism in relation to NI. Also I read a lot of posts on here, about Muslims and if you put in the word Catholics were things I heard growing up.

Yeah, IS claim responsibility for my local roadworks, Ed Sheeran and the heatwave. Actually back in the day the Welsh dipstick with his can would have been labelled a 'criminal'. I accept though that these days it's terrorism.

As an aside, although London was hit hard by the IR a sectarianism was unknown. My grandparents were an RC if Irish origin and an Anglican but nobody gave a hoot about any of it. If anyone pointed the finger at 'suspect' people, it was at 'the Irish'. Religion largely irrelevant to us.

[Nearly Sane]

Yeah, IS claim responsibility for my local roadworks, Ed Sheeran and the heatwave. Actually back in the day the Welsh dipstick with his can would have been labelled a 'criminal'. I accept though that these days it's terrorism.

As an aside, although London was hit hard by the IR a sectarianism was unknown. My grandparents were an RC if Irish origin and an Anglican but nobody gave a hoot about any of it. If anyone pointed the finger at 'suspect' people, it was at 'the Irish'. Religion largely irrelevant to us.

I was out with a friend a few weeks ago, the Monday after the murders on London Bridge and in Borough Market. He's from Belfast. We were talking about when we met in Glasgow in the 80s and he was saying that he found the sectarianism much more obvious in Glasgow than Belfast. In part we think because it wasn't quite as dangerous for those expressing it.

He lives in Wapping so had heard some of the controlled explosions but when he got back after having driven his son back to uni on Sunday, there was a huge police incident with 50 Met police and a dozen or so Marine police running up from their GQ nearby in lifejackets. Turns out it was a fight at a pub, where a policeman coming to arrest the idiots had been shoved by the mother of one of the idiots. Obviously in the current place this became much more worrying but no terrorism


Glasgow is better than it was but it has a history of knife crime where if three blokes turned up with machetes then they would be seen as a small underarmed incursion to many places. And much of that was at least nominally sectarian. So much of this is less about ideology than testorone.

ETA - As a Glaswegian I found Kilburn much more obviously sectarian to me than Glasgow, when I went into pubs in the early 80s and the collection tons went round. 

[Nearly Sane]

Apparently the  murderer in the van was 'self radicalising', I thought that meant you went blind.

[floo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40381794

[Sassy]

What's our way of life? Who's "our" people?

It's constantly changing, what was our way of life in the 1950's isn't now.

Are we living in the 1950's?  If you do not know our way of life and who the people who belong to GB are then you should start reading up.

Even our food and drink has changed enormously, due to outside influences.

Means zilch and Nada in this debate.

Are we supposed to freeze " our way of life" to 2017?

You want to freeze everything to people being blown up and run over?
Not a clever remark but you knew that. You are running out of arguments and creating suggestions that are plainly ridiculous and nothing
to do with what has been said.

Plus we are all different, my Sunday is very different to my ordained Christians friends "way of life".

You mean you don't wash, get dressed and have your meals? You don't watch tv or go our and read the papers?
Ridiculous isn't it. Tell me, is it the British way of life to commit suicide whilst blowing our children up?
Well then why make such a ridiculour remark?

A Muslims week is different again, who are we protecting? My ordained Christians friends over a Muslims way?

Is it the Peaceful Muslim or Christians who causing the trouble? So why make a stupid statement?
You are the one with the wrong thinking not myself.

The only thing we need to protect is our freedom, and unfortunately we are losing that anyway.

With freedom comes the risk of losing your "way of life".

Freedom is what happened to Sunday Trading, look at it now.

Freedom doesn't go hand in hand with " preserving our way of life"

To me " our people" includes Muslims and ethnic groups and their way of life too.

What does it mean to you Sassy?

Basically white and Christian?

Since man has stopped honouring the Sabbath day look at all that has befell this country.
As for the other rubbish you posted not everyone believes that suicide bombers who are terrorist are just a figment of a white christians or any other race or religions imagination.

The terrorist exist,. they kill and there is no prejudice involved when saying that stricter regulations about who comes here as a an asylum seeker
need vetting very strongly.
You see the prejudice is figament of your imagination. In reality we do not want terrorist here. That goes without saying from people of every colour and religion.

[floo]

Sass your comment about bad things happening in the UK because Sunday is not regarded as the 'sabbath' by many people these days, is really silly!

[Robbie]

Bad things have always happened. Our parents were kids during WWll,experienced bombing and casualties which to them was horrific. The sabbath was observed then but  it didn't stop war.
Those on both sides of the Irish troubles observed the Sabbath.

[floo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-40397028

Another atrocity, this time in Newcastle!

[Rhiannon]

Except the police say  it's not terror related. Driver's been arrested at the scene. Sounds like an accident of some kind, possibly involving dangerous driving.

[Nearly Sane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-40397028

Another atrocity, this time in Newcastle!

Not believed to be terrorist related

[floo]

I am a bit surprised the police have ruled that out so quickly!

[Nearly Sane]

I am a bit surprised the police have ruled that out so quickly!

You mean the police whose job it is, who are there,aren't as expert as you calling it an atrocity on the basis of a news report that says it isn't believed to be terrorist related with all your long years of working in this area?

[floo]

You mean the police whose job it is, who are there,aren't as expert as you calling it an atrocity on the basis of a news report that says it isn't believed to be terrorist related with all your long years of working in this area?

All I said, I was surprised they had ruled terrorism out so quickly, I didn't say they weren't right to do so!

[Nearly Sane]

All I said, I was surprised they had ruled terrorism out so quickly, I didn't say they weren't right to do so!

So why did you call it an atrocity on the basis of a report that said it wasn't terrorist related?

[Rhiannon]

It seems that the main reason they ruled terrorism out is that the driver is one of the Muslims leaving prayer who then lost control of her car.

Got to hand it to our police, they spot the clues straight away.

[Gordon]

I am a bit surprised the police have ruled that out so quickly!

Perhaps that is because they have investigated the circumstances and that the details are such that the police could quickly conclude that terrorism wasn't involved.

[Sebastian Toe]

I am a bit surprised the police have ruled that out so quickly!

Maybe it was because they used mobile phones and texts to communicate rather than rely on emails and land lines?