Alcohol, poverty and Scotland

[Nearly Sane]

Then it might kill all those undeserving rich people off, much to the pleasure of a few on this forum!

Well it obviously already does. And as I have suggested I suspect it is underplayed because it is chosen to be as it is 'chavvy' to have that on the death certificate.

[ad_orientem]

I would agree with that as a feeling but think it is primarily shop bought where the difference occurs.

As an aside, perhaps the ease of purchase, which I think has also changed, in part because of sensible reasons, might be looked at. Off licences used to be less pleasant and buying alcohol on both Scandi countries and Canada when I did it some years ago was much more of a hassle.


I struggle with this because I am by nature a libertarian and maybe it is merely middle class guilt playing on me.

As someone who lives in one of those countries where to sale of alcohol is more restricted, I can wholeheartedly say that it's a fucking pain in the arse. The majority is punished because the few.

[Nearly Sane]

As someone who lives in one of those countries where to sale of alcohol is more restricted, I can wholeheartedly say that it's a fucking pain in the arse. The majority is punished because the few.

Are you 'punished'? And would a more liberal regime be better for society as a whole? Is expense a punishment? And given the effects of alcohol is your punishment worth one small child beaten because its patent found it easy to access alcohol?

[ad_orientem]

Are you 'punished'? And would a more liberal regime be better for society as a whole? Is expense a punishment? And given the effects of alcohol is your punishment worth one small child beaten because its patent found it easy to access alcohol?

The people who have a problem buy their booze from the local Moderator: content removed who got a van load cheap from Estonia.

[Nearly Sane]

The people who have a problem buy their booze from the localModerator: quoted content removed who got a van load cheap from Estonia.

So you have evidence that the incidence of alcoholism and abuse of others us  a constant no matter the regulatory regime?

[Anchorman]

It is so sad that kids start drinking alcohol at such a young age. I don't think I ever touched the stuff until I was in my 20s, nor did my husband. My parents didn't drink, nor did his. Neither of us have ever been drunk, we do enjoy a glass of sherry, wine, or even a single malt whisky, but in strict moderation.

The youth binge culture is so far removed from your experience, Floo!
I wish the youth would confine themselves to a decent malt - at least that would limit their consumption of alcohol - but the disgracefully cheap prices of chateau plonk and cat's piss disguised as lager makes consuming as much as poosible, as quickly as possible, easy. Minimum pricing might go some way to ease this situation.

[ad_orientem]

So you have evidence that the incidence of alcoholism and abuse of others us  a constant no matter the regulatory regime?

I wouldn't say none but certainly not as much as some groups would have us believe. People always find a way.

[Anchorman]

But if you are drunk you aren't in control of what you are doing, that would be AWFUL! I cannot see for the life of me why anyone would think that pleasurable, and never wish to find out.

Possibly because the social situation in which many live, filled with depression and a seemingly endless drudge, leads them to accept alcohol as an answer to temporarily ease their situation.
It doesn't in the long run - but for far too many it's a sort of answer.

[Shaker]

You do find out things about yourself that in the normal course of events you wouldn't. For instance when trying to find somewhere to pee avoid holes in the ground.

Also electrified cattle fences. Not recommended.

[Anchorman]

Make it so expensive it can only be an occasional treat.

Won't work.
Those who seek the oblivion of a high which might give them what they think is a solution to their feelings will get the cash to afford it somehow.

[floo]

Why doesn't that surprise me. I bet you're the life and soul of the party.

We don't do parties, neither of us enjoy them, only immediate family gatherings.

[Anchorman]

As someone who lives in one of those countries where to sale of alcohol is more restricted, I can wholeheartedly say that it's a fucking pain in the arse. The majority is punished because the few.

Shouldn't the Christ-like attitude be to walk with those who have an addiction, rather than selfishly feeling 'punished'?

[ad_orientem]

Shouldn't the Christ-like attitude be to walk with those who have an addiction, rather than selfishly feeling 'punished'?

I strongly believe that restriction isn't the way because it doesn't deal with the root cause.

[Anchorman]

I strongly believe that restriction isn't the way because it doesn't deal with the root cause.

So in what way would making alcohol abundant and cheap help the root cause of addiction?

[ad_orientem]

So in what way would making alcohol abundant and cheap help the root cause of addiction?

I wouldn't say there should be no restrictions but in my country, for instance, it goes too far. Hell, you can't even by a bottle of wine from a food shop but instead from a state off licence with crappy opening hours. It's unfair on the majority. Instead we should be focusing on other ways to deal with the problem and that starts with educating kids. If you make it into a forbidden fruit then it merely makes it more attractive and the likelihood is people will be more prone to abusing alcohol.

[Nearly Sane]

I wouldn't say there should be no restrictions but in my country, for instance, it goes too far. Hell, you can't even by a bottle of wine from a food shop but instead from a state off licence with crappy opening hours. It's unfair on the majority. Instead we should be focusing on other ways to deal with the problem and that starts with educating kids. If you make it into a forbidden fruit then it merely makes it more attractive and the likelihood is people will be more prone to abusing alcohol.

Do you have figures for that opinion?

[Ricky Spanish]

It is so sad that kids start drinking alcohol at such a young age. I don't think I ever touched the stuff until I was in my 20s, nor did my husband. My parents didn't drink, nor did his. Neither of us has ever been drunk, we do enjoy a glass of sherry, wine, or even a single malt whisky, but in strict moderation.

Fuck me... this explains a lot... although what the fuck was you on when you saw the faeries at the bottom of yer paddock? [or whatever it was you sold yer dreams on!!]

[ad_orientem]

Do you have figures for that opinion?

Figures? No. But Finland dabbled with prohibition after independence and the result wasn't all that good, except in the eyes of puritans. The result even to this day is that it's a kind of forbidden fruit to youngsters which is definitely a cause of alcohol abuse.

[Nearly Sane]

Figures? No. But Finland dabbled with prohibition after independence and the result wasn't all that good, except in the eyes of puritans. The result even to this day is that it's a kind of forbidden fruit to youngsters which is definitely a cause of alcohol abuse.

So surely you need to look at what is the best solution not whinge about being punished?

[ad_orientem]

So surely you need to look at what is the best solution not whinge about being punished?

The solution isn't mote restrictions. It's education.

[Nearly Sane]

The solution isn't mote restrictions. It's education.

Can you provide evidence for that?

[ad_orientem]

Can you provide evidence for that?

It's simple logic. If you educate young people concerning alcohol then they're less likely to abuse it. It ain't fucking rocket science!

[Shaker]

It's simple logic. If you educate young people concetning alcohol then they're less likely to abuse it. It ain't fucking rocket science!

Certainly seems to work with sex, so you could well be onto something.

[Nearly Sane]

It's simple logic. If you educate young people concerning alcohol then they're less likely to abuse it. It ain't fucking rocket science!

Bit that isn't your case. You are stating that there shouldn't be more restrictions in the UK but providing no evidence that is the best position.

[Shaker]

Presumably his case is that it's unjust to financially penalise the responsible many for the actions of an irresponsible few.

I once read somewhere that 70% of the adult UK population drinks alcohol. That raw figure obviously includes everybody from the tanked-up and aggressive thugs and vandals in city centres to the old ladies who have a Baileys on Christmas afternoon and every point between. However, there are vastly many more of the latter than the former. So, if education works, the point stands: why screw the sensible majority as a means of getting at a senseless minority?