Andrew Copson chooses 5 books on Humanism

[Nearly Sane]

None of them appear to be written by Stalin!!!



http://fivebooks.com/interview/andrew-copson-humanism/

[Shaker]

Nice interview, and good to see him tackle (as A. C. Grayling has done) some of the issues I have with humanism, especially the tendency toward anthropocentrism.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, that is good to see but I find that there is as often an attempt to define it in a way that is designed to deal with any objections to the extent that it becomes meaningless.

[SusanDoris]

Very interesting link, NS. Thank you. I have listened all the way through.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

None of them appear to be written by Stalin!!!



http://fivebooks.com/interview/andrew-copson-humanism/

One is hardly going to put their nastier aspects in the shop window.

[Shaker]

1) What "nastier aspects" ...

2) ... of whom?

[ProfessorDavey]

One is hardly going to put their nastier aspects in the shop window.

He's a humanist isn't he?

Do you have examples of genocide, crimes against humanity, various other atrocities being committed in the name of humanism.

Sure there are plenty of examples committed in the name of marxism, communism, fascism, many religious ideologies etc, etc.

But humanism!?!

Come on Vlad, some examples please.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

He's a humanist isn't he?

Do you have examples of genocide, crimes against humanity, various other atrocities being committed in the name of humanism.

Sure there are plenty of examples committed in the name of marxism, communism, fascism, many religious ideologies etc, etc.

But humanism!?!

Come on Vlad, some examples please.

This post is non sequitur to a statement that the desire to remove religion from the public forum, as expressed by some forum humanists and atheists and in the BHA and NSS, was a sentiment shared by Stalin.

On the other hand much as I'd like to declare Secular Humanism as the vague waffler's equivalent of trainspotting and Teddy Bears.....i'm afraid some of the views casually held by humanists about religion aren't anywhere near as benign as anything connected with the aforementioned pastimes.

One can be creepily and frighteningly sinister without ''atrocity'' and some of you guys are IMHO. 

[Shaker]

This post is non sequitur to a statement that the desire to remove religion from the public forum, as expressed by some forum humanists and atheists and in the BHA and NSS

You keep repeating this but never actually come up with any names and accompanying evidence of anyone who thinks that religion "should be removed from the public forum". It's high time you did so or just shut up.

[Nearly Sane]

This post is non sequitur to a statement that the desire to remove religion from the public forum, as expressed by some forum humanists and atheists and in the BHA and NSS, was a sentiment shared by Stalin.

On the other hand much as I'd like to declare Secular Humanism as the vague waffler's equivalent of trainspotting and Teddy Bears.....i'm afraid some of the views casually held by humanists about religion aren't anywhere near as benign as anything connected with the aforementioned pastimes.

One can be creepily and frighteningly sinister without ''atrocity'' and some of you guys are IMHO.

stop lying

[Walt Zingmatilder]

stop lying

My opinion is that you started this thread as a bit of a piss take of me and now you don't find the consequences that agreeable.

[Nearly Sane]

My opinion is that you started this thread as a bit of a piss take of me and now you don't find the consequences that agreeable.

Stop lying

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Stop lying

I don't recall claiming or suggesting British secularism is responsible for any atrocity but because of  hair trigger sensitivity towards criticism of Sacred Secular Humanism I am being asked for examples of atrocity.

We are on a forum which regularly removes posts by date.

[Shaker]

I don't recall claiming or suggesting British secularism is responsible for any atrocity but because of  hair trigger sensitivity towards criticism of Sacred Secular Humanism I am being asked for examples of atrocity.

No, you're being asked to substantiate your assertions about those who you allege want religion removed from the public forum.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't recall claiming or suggesting British secularism is responsible for any atrocity but because of  hair trigger sensitivity towards criticism of Sacred Secular Humanism I am being asked for examples of atrocity.

We are on a forum which regularly removes posts by date.

What has any of that to do with your lying?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, you're being asked to substantiate your assertions about those who you allege want religion removed from the public forum.

Reply no 12 covers anything further I may say.
In the meantime I will throw out the following tests to persons on this forum.

How do you interpret the statement Freedom of religion, freedom FROM religion?

Do you think religion should be involved in politics?

Do you think religion should be involved in public service?

Do you think religion should be a totally private thing?

[ProfessorDavey]

This post is non sequitur to a statement that the desire to remove religion from the public forum

Not sure I'd phrase it in that way but obviously humanists want separation of religion and the state - that's what it says on the tin.

, as expressed by some forum humanists and atheists and in the BHA and NSS, was a sentiment shared by Stalin.

Firstly this is mission creep - Stalin wanted to ban religion, that is entirely different to wanting to separate state and religion. Humanists don't want to ban religion, they think that religion is a private matter and that the state should be completely neutral with regard to religion.

Secondly it is guilt by association to the n-th degree to pick a single point on which Stalin and humanists agree (except of course you don't - see above) and then somehow equate the two. Hitler liked Wagner - does that mean that all Wagner fans are somehow genocidal fascists?

So once again - please provide me examples of genocide or other atrocities committed in the name of humanism. There may be examples (I'm genuinely interested) but I'm struggling to think of any and I suspect you are too by using the lame example of trying to equate Stalin with humanism when Stalin wasn't a humanist.

[Shaker]

Reply no 12 covers anything further I may say.

Reply # 12 says precisely nothing about:

... the desire to remove religion from the public forum, as expressed by some forum humanists and atheists and in the BHA and NSS, [and] was a sentiment shared by Stalin.

[Shaker]

Not sure I'd phrase it in that way but obviously humanists want separation of religion and the state

Somebody should invent a name for that.

[Gordon]

Somebody should invent a name for that.

I'd suggest 'Vladdism'!

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't recall claiming or suggesting British secularism is responsible for any atrocity but because of  hair trigger sensitivity towards criticism of Sacred Secular Humanism I am being asked for examples of atrocity.

We are on a forum which regularly removes posts by date.

As ever you seem to be muddling up humanism and secularism - you do understand that they are entirely different things don't you Vlad - sure there are plenty of people who consider themselves secularist and humanist, but there is a long tradition of religious people who are in no way humanist but strongly believe in secularism.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't recall claiming or suggesting British secularism is responsible for any atrocity ...

We are discussing humanism not secularism.

So once again please enlighten us of the atrocities committed in the name of humanism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hitler liked Wanger

I have never suggested the Humanism I have been talking about has committed atrocity. Therefore I have no more duty to provide examples than anyone else on this forum.

On the other hand you made this statement and I quote:

''Hitler liked Wanger''

Now that is news to me.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We are discussing humanism not secularism.

OK.....I have never accused them of atrocities either.

[ProfessorDavey]

How do you interpret the statement Freedom of religion, freedom FROM religion?

Very simply - that those who wish to follow a religious belief should not be prevented from doing so, and equally that those who do not wish to follow a religious belief should not find religion impinges on their lives due unless they chose it to.

Not sure why that is such a challenging concept. And freedom from religion applies to those who are religious to, specifically freedom from religions other than that which they follow. So you are a christian - freedom of religion means you are able to follow that religion - freedom from religion means you should not have other religions impinge upon your life (unless you chose to) - so you shouldn't be required to change how you fulfil your Fridays because it is a muslim holy day, as an example.