Legal and consented Female Genital Mutilation

[Nearly Sane]

How sad!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40410459

[Rhiannon]

And lying behind this is the fact that young girls are learning about what they 'should' look like from porn.

[Nearly Sane]

And of course the same applies to boys, and about behaviour.

[Rhiannon]

Oh absolutely.

[floo]

How sad!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40410459

More than tragic, imo.

[Shaker]

And lying behind this is the fact that young girls are learning about what they 'should' look like from porn.

But - if there's as much porn about as we're told, or rather, if young people are seeing as much porn as regularly and in the numbers we're led to believe, then surely they're going to be exposed to genitalia of all shapes and sizes.

I doubt very much indeed that there are very many female professional porn performers who have undergone labiaplasty, so that would seem to suggest that these youngsters are for the most part seeing normal variation of normal bodies. If I'm right and that's the case, the demand for surgery from girls as young as the article states must be coming from elsewhere.

[Nearly Sane]

Isn't that (a) an argument from incredulity, and (b) one contradicted anecdotally by the example in the article? Are you saying that pirn is realistic in its expectations of bodies?

[Rhiannon]

There's a 'western fashion' for near, small labia. And tiny waists/ large breasts. And no body hair, incidentally. How are fashions accommodated?

How much porn is 'about' is open to question but my daughter was sexually harassed by a boy using porn as a weapon at her school. Eventually I had to step in and in the end the school realised the only way to control both viewing porn and cyber bullying on site was to ban smartphones.

[floo]

We are talking about pre teens which is frightening, why the heck are their parents and medics allowing them to go through this mutilation?

[Nearly Sane]

We are talking about pre teens which is frightening, why the heck are their parents and medics allowing them to go through this mutilation?

We are also talking in the main from the report about teens but I think the same objection applies.

[Rhiannon]

The report mentions girls of eleven and twelve. This worries me hugely. 😕

[floo]

We are also talking in the main from the report about teens but I think the same objection applies.

No under 18 should have this sort of surgery unless they have a definite medical problem, not a perceived one.

[Nearly Sane]

No under 18 should have this sort of surgery unless they have a definite medical problem, not a perceived one.

Agree. And no one should have it on the NHS ever without a definite medical problem.

[floo]

Agree. And no one should have it on the NHS ever without a definite medical problem.

Agreed.

[Aruntraveller]

Is it not also a reflection on how (some) parents have lost the ability to explain things to their children and indeed protect them from social media.

I don't know the solution to all this but there really should be a legal age limit for this sort of thing to be even considered.

BTW the same argument holds for tattoos and piercings AFAIAC.

I now know that I am a fully paid up grumpy old man as I am going to utter the phrase why can't we just let children have their childhood.

I know it is all much more complicated to protect youngsters these days, but as a society we have got to find a way through the mess that the internet has created for so many in this world. I realise that sounds like a call for some kind of censorship - but in my naivety I think to myself  it worked for the film industry, surely it is not beyond our capabilities to bring some control to bear on all that is 'out there'.

There are parental controls but that means that some parents will have to start acting like parents instead of trying to be 'mates' with their offspring.

Yep - definitely grumpy.

[floo]

Is it not also a reflection on how (some) parents have lost the ability to explain things to their children and indeed protect them from social media.

I don't know the solution to all this but there really should be a legal age limit for this sort of thing to be even considered.

BTW the same argument holds for tattoos and piercings AFAIAC.

I now know that I am a fully paid up grumpy old man as I am going to utter the phrase why can't we just let children have their childhood.

I know it is all much more complicated to protect youngsters these days, but as a society we have got to find a way through the mess that the internet has created for so many in this world. I realise that sounds like a call for some kind of censorship - but in my naivety I think to myself  it worked for the film industry, surely it is not beyond our capabilities to bring some control to bear on all that is 'out there'.

There are parental controls but that means that some parents will have to start acting like parents instead of trying to be 'mates' with their offspring.

Yep - definitely grumpy.

I consider myself fortunate that our children were kids in the days before everyone had computers and mobile phones. However, I do know that my husband and I would have insisted that their computer/phone use was restricted, and only permitted when we were around to supervise it. No that wouldn't have made us popular, but far better than what is going on today.

[Shaker]

I realise that sounds like a call for some kind of censorship - but in my naivety I think to myself  it worked for the film industry, surely it is not beyond our capabilities to bring some control to bear on all that is 'out there'.

On the contrary: I don't see that there's any way of doing so.

Given the bigger picture - that there are repressive regimes around the world very keen on censorship and denying their citizens free speech and free expression - on the whole that's a good thing.

[Rhiannon]

It's hard, Trent. My daughters take a strongly anti porn stance because of how they have encountered it through other children and haven't engaged with it. But peer pressure is terrible and as much as I can switch on parental controls, other parents don't and trust me, most teenagers can circumvent them in a blink of an eye anyway. Also parental controls generally come from the States and not only censor porn but swearing (which as a parent I'm not fussed about) and, very often, LGBTI issues, which I want them to be able to engage with.

I have no clue if I'm getting this right but I've found the best thing is actually to be a friend in a way, and talk about stuff that I gather most parents don't talk to their kids about, including labia size and goodness knows what else. My girls also happen to follow a lot of young feminist activists on social media and maybe some of that will rub off on their little bro. The only option is to talk about it, talk about it and talk about it some more.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree with much of what you say, trentvoyager, but I think it's naive to think that censorship worked that well in the past, of that there are not crucially different challenges presented by the we, not least the idea that parents have to be more tech savvy than their kids. Now the industry could make it easier for parents but it will still need some form of level of commitment and understanding by people that they seem incapable of in protecting their financial details.


To an extent, I think it is one of the reasons why MGM needs to be addressed because it works as a gateway 'drug' to mutilation.  As noted, I think we also have to be careful of such surgery being offered on the NHS, though for anyone reading I should emphasise genuine medical issue includes genuine mental health issues.

[Shaker]

... parental controls generally come from the States and not only censor porn but swearing (which as a parent I'm not fussed about) and, very often, LBTGI issues, which I want them to be able to engage with.

My nannyish ISP - before I changed the settings anyway - blocked links to anti-Islamic sites on this very forum.

I've heard of searches for things such as single-sex schools and the like being blocked as well.

[floo]

I feel sorry for my two married daughters and spouses have to cope with their kids who spend all the time they are permitted, and probably more, on their computers and phones.

[Rhiannon]

My nannyish ISP - before I changed the settings anyway - blocked links to anti-Islamic sites on this very forum.

I've heard of searches for things such as single-sex schools and the like being blocked as well.

Yes, I found when using parental controls I couldn't access sites on meditation and Buddhism.

[Rhiannon]

I feel sorry for my two married daughters and spouses have to cope with their kids who spend all the time they are permitted, and probably more, on their computers and phones.

Why?

[Shaker]

Yes, I found when using parental controls I couldn't access sites on meditation and Buddhism.

WTF?

[Rhiannon]

WTF?

Dodgy spirituality. And as for anything New Age...