not about the money

[Bubbles]

Why does someone else doing something bad justify other's doing it?

Do you have an objection to someone being able to earn a small amount of money for luxuries, while they have been given bed and board by the state?

[Nearly Sane]

Do you have an objection to someone being able to earn a small amount of money for luxuries, while they have been given bed and board by the state?

I object to slave labour. Any chance you will answer the question that was asked?

[Bubbles]

I object to slave labour. Any chance you will answer the question that was asked?

How?

I don't think immigrants being allowed to do something to earn a small amount of pocket money to earn a few luxuries and prevent boredom, is indentured slavery.

For a start, it's voluntary.

Secondly they get paid for it, slaves don't.

I don't think the idea was to use them as slaves or cheap labour.

I'm not talking full time work.

This is more along the lines of pocket money.

You always push things to such an extreme you lose the plot!

[Nearly Sane]

How?

I don't think immigrants being allowed to do something to earn a small amount of pocket money to earn a few luxuries and prevent boredom, is indentured slavery.

For a start, it's voluntary.

Secondly they get paid for it, slaves don't.

I don't think the idea was to use them as slaves or cheap labour.

I'm not talking full time work.

This is more along the lines of pocket money.

You always push things to such an extreme you lose the plot!

They are not children and don't need to be 'allowed' to do work. They are de facto being used as cheap labour.

I note you again  didn't answer the question.

[Robbie]

You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)

People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.


Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited.  It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.

We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.

[Sebastian Toe]

If you were an immigrant stuck in one of those camps, you'd jump at anything.

A lot of them are escaping far worse situations than three meals a day.


You took my post out of context, didn't you?

All I asked was would you jump at the chance of a 50p an hour job.
Would you?

[Rhiannon]

You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)

People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.


Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited.  It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.

We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.

These people are asylum seekers, not criminals and rat infested 'accommodation' scarcely qualifies as 'bed and board'.

[Bubbles]

All I asked was would you jump at the chance of a 50p an hour job.
Would you?

Stop trying to make it something it's not.

Thousands of people opt for about 50p hour when they choose to do something like selling  Avon or Christmas cards.

You never make much for the amount of time you spend going around other people's houses.

People do it because they don't mind and it brings in a few bob to spend on luxuries.

So yes, when my children were small, I was happy to do those things.

If I was an immigrant, so unable to work, yes I'd be happy to do something to get myself some luxuries.

[Nearly Sane]

You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)

People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.


Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited.  It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.

We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.

You could, mmm, I don't know just pay them decently for their work. 

[Nearly Sane]

Stop trying to make it something it's not.

Thousands of people opt for about 50p hour when they choose to do something like selling  Avon or Christmas cards.

You never make much for the amount of time you spend going around other people's houses.

People do it because they don't mind and it brings in a few bob to spend on luxuries.

So yes, when my children were small, I was happy to do those things.

If I was an immigrant, so unable to work, yes I'd be happy to do something to get myself some luxuries.

Leaving aside your conflation of immigrants and asylum seekers, something that is all too common, that they aren't allowed to work is a legal position which should not be got round by paying them slave wages.

[Bubbles]

You could, mmm, I don't know just pay them decently for their work.

In the case of prisoners, no. They are already getting bed and board and colour TVs. 

Pensioners don't get that if they have to stay in hospital for more than a certain number of weeks. They get their pension taken away, and if they don't have family and rent they can lose their home.

Why on earth would we keep prisoners, and pay them a decent wage as well?

At least I have some sympathy for immigrants, and pensioners, prisoners don't deserve a decent wage, they are being punished.

[Bubbles]

Leaving aside your conflation of immigrants and asylum seekers, something that is all too common, that they aren't allowed to work is a legal position which should not be got round by paying them slave wages.

It's not slave labour, it's pocket money.

[Nearly Sane]

It's not slave labour, it's pocket money.

Keep telling yourself that, maybe it will help you sleep at night while you support paying slave wages to the downtrodden.

[Rhiannon]

It's not slave labour, it's pocket money.

It's slave labour because it is jobs that are essential and should be advertised and recruited at the minimum wage. It's slave labour because those that do the work can't get proper jobs even though they have done *nothing* wrong. Many will be victims of beatings and torture.

And it isn't pocket money. They are adults (again, who have done *nothing* wrong) and who deserve to be treated with the same dignity as you or I.

[Nearly Sane]

In the case of prisoners, no. They are already getting bed and board and colour TVs. 

Pensioners don't get that if they have to stay in hospital for more than a certain number of weeks. They get their pension taken away, and if they don't have family and rent they can lose their home.

Why on earth would we keep prisoners, and pay them a decent wage as well?

At least I have some sympathy for immigrants, and pensioners, prisoners don't deserve a decent wage, they are being punished.

Didn't day they did, I was talking about the asylum seekers who you think should be treated like prisoners.

[Bubbles]

Didn't day they did, I was talking about the asylum seekers who you think should be treated like prisoners.

🙄

I never said anything like that 

[Bubbles]

It's slave labour because it is jobs that are essential and should be advertised and recruited at the minimum wage. It's slave labour because those that do the work can't get proper jobs even though they have done *nothing* wrong. Many will be victims of beatings and torture.

And it isn't pocket money. They are adults (again, who have done *nothing* wrong) and who deserve to be treated with the same dignity as you or I.

Being in an immigration centre isn't that then, is it?

Nothing at all like being treated with dignity, like you and me. I know they haven't done anything wrong, never said they had.

They already are not being treated to the same dignity as you and I, they are in immigration centres.
You are blind to that bit, obviously.

[Nearly Sane]

🙄

I never said anything like that 

How is saying that prisoners are paid low wages, and therefore it is OK to pay asylum seekers (BTW not immigrants) that OK, not exactly that?

[Robbie]

It was me that brought up prisoners actually and maybe not a fair comparison to asylum seekers who haven't committed crimes.
I was merely thinking that they too are people who work for a pittance. I got the impression that Rose thought it was not a particularly fair comparison because of the difference in status.

Asylum seekers who are living in centres are presumably not allowed to go out and get jobs in the same way as us, pay tax, etc.  They are temporarily housed, given food and medical care, any little money is a welcome extra & probably even an interest while they wait.

No-one pretends its an ideal situation. I'd like to hear what ex-asylum seekers who have been in that situation think about it.

[Nearly Sane]

It was me that brought up prisoners actually and maybe not a fair comparison to asylum seekers who haven't committed crimes.
I was merely thinking that they too are people who work for a pittance. I got the impression that Rose thought it was not a particularly fair comparison because of the difference in status.

Asylum seekers who are living in centres are presumably not allowed to go out and get jobs in the same way as us, pay tax, etc.  They are temporarily housed, given food and medical care, any little money is a welcome extra & probably even an interest while they wait.

No-one pretends its an ideal situation. I'd like to hear what ex-asylum seekers who have been in that situation think about it.

So if we stop people earning, they should be grateful for any crumbs thet might get a chance at?

[floo]

You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)

People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.


Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited.  It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.

We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.

No way should prisoners be paid for the work they do!

[Aruntraveller]

No way should prisoners be paid for the work they do!

Quite right. Flog them toll they drop in their tracks. EVIL SCUM.

[Robbie]

 
They don't earn much floo. It's not unreasonable for someone to, say, be assembling feather dusters, putting the heads on and packaging them, to be paid something by those who will eventually be distributing them to high street shops at profit. It also helps develop a work ethic in some people who have never had legitimate work. What would they do otherwise? Theink of the saying - "Devil makes work for idle hands" (even tho' you may not believe in a literal devil  . Occupation is good & it helps prison staff to maintain a calmer atmosphere.

However the point of this thread (my fault for going off on tangent about prisoners), is whether or not asylum seekers who have jobs are exploited by being paid a pittance. Has anyone asked them how they feel about it?

[floo]

Quite right. Flog them toll they drop in their tracks. EVIL SCUM.

Why should they be paid, when they owe a debt to society, which is why they are in prison in the first place?

[Aruntraveller]

Why should they be paid, when they owe a debt to society, which is why they are in prison in the first place?

Yes quite right. EVIL SCUM.8