We are now officially a majority non religious country

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Three points:

1. 52.8% is a much higher than the 51.9% Leave vote - albeit marginal.

2. Much more significantly the Brexit vote was a forced choice of just 2 options, so the Leave 51.9% was less than 4% ahead of the next most popular (and only other) option. No religion at 52.8% is over 35% ahead of the next most popular option.

3. The direction of travel. The demographics mean that the Leave slender majority is likely to shrink further as old (more 'Leavy') people die and younger (more 'Remainy') people turn 18. The reverse is true for religion - the demographics imply a relentless increase in 'non religion', with the proportion of people claiming to be religious shrinking further over the next few decades.

I think it's the decline in popularity of Star Wars.......Think about it.

I think a scientist needs to be capable about a ''relentless'' social increase or decrease over decades.

[Sriram]

Over the past couple of weeks the latest regular British Social Attitudes survey (run pretty well annually since 1983) results have been published.

While it didn't receive a lot of press coverage the survey includes the following data on religion:

No religion: 52.8%
CofE: 15.0%
Roman Catholic: 8.6%
Other Christian: 17.0%
Non Christian religion: 6.3%

This is comfortably the highest proportion of non religion seen in the survey over its 34 year history. Over that period the proportion of non religious have consistently increased from 31% in 1983 to 52.8% now.

The complementary Scottish Social Attitudes survey shows an even greater proportion of the population (58%) indicating that they have no religion - again the highest level ever recorded in the survey.

Maybe secular spirituality is growing.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Maybe secular spirituality is growing.

As a bit of a background Sriram, English communities were and still are in rural areas based around Church, Village Hall, and Public house.

All three are declining as centres for communal activity, Village Halls now Cater for sub communal Groups and Pub visitations and church visitations are declining.

There has been an increase in people buying their own drinks to consume at home rather than going to pubs.

Could there therefore be more spirituality in the secular space as the result of a shift from communality? Very possible.

[Enki]

Maybe secular spirituality is growing.

Yes, I do hope so, Sriram.

[Shaker]

Maybe secular spirituality is growing.

Perhaps, but even to be in with a chance of finding out you'd first have to define it and determine how it's expressed - that is, to know that you've found it when looking for it. Spirituality is one of those words notoriously difficult to pin down in a way that provides a working and workable definition to cover a wide enough sample - to me it always seems too privatised and individualistic for that (and that's an observation, I should say, and not in any way a criticism).

I'm not sure anybody has done so and then conducted a study or a survey to see how this plays out in people's lives. It would be interesting if somebody did, though.

[Enki]

Perhaps, but even to be in with a chance of finding out you'd first have to define it and determine how it's expressed - that is, to know that you've found it when looking for it. Spirituality is one of those words notoriously difficult to pin down in a way that provides a working and workable definition to cover a wide enough sample - to me it always seems too privatised and individualistic for that (and that's an observation, I should say, and not in any way a criticism).

I'm not sure anybody has done so and then conducted a study or a survey to see how this plays out in people's lives. It would be interesting if somebody did, though.

Agreed, Shaker. I deliberately didn't expand on what my idea of 'spirituality' is, as Sriram didn't bother to either, although his use of 'secular' suggests that it isn't associated with religious matters, of course.

[Shaker]

Agreed, Shaker. I deliberately didn't expand on what my idea of 'spirituality' is

No but I wish you had! I'm always interested to hear people's take on it.

[Sriram]

As a bit of a background Sriram, English communities were and still are in rural areas based around Church, Village Hall, and Public house.

All three are declining as centres for communal activity, Village Halls now Cater for sub communal Groups and Pub visitations and church visitations are declining.

There has been an increase in people buying their own drinks to consume at home rather than going to pubs.

Could there therefore be more spirituality in the secular space as the result of a shift from communality? Very possible.

Yes...you're probably right.   Religions have many aspects to them, mythology, legends, rituals, rules, community work, congregating in temples and churches, deities and so on.

With changing times, people could give up on many of the above and still retain basic spiritual goals and aspirations.   

For those who wonder what 'spirituality'is, I have written about it several times.

You could  check out this article.

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/spirituality-and-religion/

[ProfessorDavey]

I think it's the decline in popularity of Star Wars.......Think about it.

What on earth are you on about - is this some Jedi reference? If so, I think you will find that campaign was about the 2001 census, not the British Social Attitudes Survey.

I think a scientist needs to be capable about a ''relentless'' social increase or decrease over decades.

Again - is this actually supposed to make any sense.

And what's with the pointless name change, yet again Vlad?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Over the past couple of weeks the latest regular British Social Attitudes survey (run pretty well annually since 1983) results have been published.

While it didn't receive a lot of press coverage the survey includes the following data on religion:

No religion: 52.8%
CofE: 15.0%
Roman Catholic: 8.6%
Other Christian: 17.0%
Non Christian religion: 6.3%

This is comfortably the highest proportion of non religion seen in the survey over its 34 year history. Over that period the proportion of non religious have consistently increased from 31% in 1983 to 52.8% now.

The complementary Scottish Social Attitudes survey shows an even greater proportion of the population (58%) indicating that they have no religion - again the highest level ever recorded in the survey.

So what?

Take a poll at my local church and a vast majority would say that abortion should be illegal.

[ProfessorDavey]

So what?

Take a poll at my local church and a vast majority would say that abortion should be illegal.

But the point is that they don't take the poll at your local church. Those that they survey are demographically representative of the entire country (including, as it were, your local church, but not exclusively so).

[floo]

So what?

Take a poll at my local church and a vast majority would say that abortion should be illegal.

If true, how sad!

[Shaker]

If true, how sad!

But utterly irrelevant, since the said members are a statistically insignificant minority sample unrepresentative of the general population.

[Rhiannon]

If true, how sad!

Why is it sad? They are entitled to their beliefs, and don't affect the majority.

[floo]

Why is it sad? They are entitled to their beliefs, and don't affect the majority.

Some beliefs cause a lot of problems!

[ProfessorDavey]

Take a poll at my local church and a vast majority would say that abortion should be illegal.

That might be true, but the British Social Attitudes survey this year looked at these types of moral issues and found a big disconnect between the 'party' line from religions and what their rank and file members actually thought.

So on abortion although the Catholic church is steadfastly opposed to abortion in pretty well every situation 61% of catholics thought that abortions should be allowed in circumstances where the woman did not wish to have the child.

Now I suspect that majority of catholics in favour of abortion might be inclined to keep their views to themselves, particularly in a church setting as they may not wish to be seen to oppose the church's view. So you might find within your own church that although the 'group think' might be that abortion is wrong - privately ask people their individual views and you may get a very different response.

[floo]

That might be true, but the British Social Attitudes survey this year looked at these types of moral issues and found a big disconnect between the 'party' line from religions and what their rank and file members actually thought.

So on abortion although the Catholic church is steadfastly opposed to abortion in pretty well every situation 61% of catholics thought that abortions should be allowed in circumstances where the woman did not wish to have the child.

Now I suspect that majority of catholics in favour of abortion might be inclined to keep their views to themselves, particularly in a church setting as they may not wish to be seen to oppose the church's view. So you might find within your own church that although the 'group think' might be that abortion is wrong - privately ask people their individual views and you may get a very different response.

I suspect many Catholics nowadays use contraceptives, as so few of them in the UK have large families.

[ProfessorDavey]

I suspect many Catholics nowadays use contraceptives, as so few of them in the UK have large families.

Of course they do.

[floo]

Of course they do.

Good for them, it is one of the RCCs crazier dogmas, especially as it has caused so much suffering due to overlarge unaffordable families in the past. Where in the Bible does it say, 'Thou shalt not use contraceptives'?

[Rhiannon]

Humph isn't a Catholic.

[ProfessorDavey]

Humph isn't a Catholic.

I never said he was - the point I was making is that the view of rank and file members of a religion are often at odds with the 'party line'. I used the Catholic example as they are widely recognised as having a very extreme 'party line' on abortion.

The British Social Attitudes survey found majority support that a woman should be allowed by law to have an abortion if she does not wish to have the child amongst Anglicans (67%) and 'other' Christian groups (57%) too.

[floo]

It is about time Catholics started questioning their priests and not accepting as gospel all they are told, especially as much of it has nothing directly to do with the Bible, like making Mary into some kind of saint. 

[Rhiannon]

I never said he was - the point I was making is that the view of rank and file members of a religion are often at odds with the 'party line'. I used the Catholic example as they are widely recognised as having a very extreme 'party line' on abortion.

The British Social Attitudes survey found majority support that a woman should be allowed by law to have an abortion if she does not wish to have the child amongst Anglicans (67%) and 'other' Christian groups (57%) too.

I get that, but in the context of Humph commenting about *his* church we are comparing apples and pears. It's well known that lay Catholics are often far more liberal than the teachings of their church but I've seen little evidence that the same goes for Orthodox believers.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I get that, but in the context of Humph commenting about *his* church we are comparing apples and pears. It's well known that lay Catholics are often far more liberal than the teachings of their church but I've seen little evidence that the same goes for Orthodox believers.

Absolutely! On one occasion, when, following receiving the Holy Gifts, I stayed too long on the women's side of the church, I was left in no doubt that I should cross to the men's side. And that was the congregation, not the priest.

FTR Our church is more liberal than the RCC as regards contraception, but abortion is a big no no.

[ProfessorDavey]

Absolutely! On one occasion, when, following receiving the Holy Gifts, I stayed too long on the women's side of the church, I was left in no doubt that I should cross to the men's side. And that was the congregation, not the priest.

FTR Our church is more liberal than the RCC as regards contraception, but abortion is a big no no.

My point was that until you ask people privately and confidentially (as is the case with the British Social Attitudes survey) you won't know for sure. I'm sure there are plenty in the RCC who will swear blind that the vast majority of their church is against abortion - yet ask them privately and confidentially and you get a very different answer.