The uninhabitable earth

[Nearly Sane]

It's illustrative of the problem of climate change that even such a basic subject such as how we deal with our own faecal matter, we have no idea of the impact of differing practices, or whether it could significantly change the situation going forward. I doubt any political party is going to get elected on a policy of dock leaves and weekly shites, and to be fair it may make little difference overall while we drown the world in plastic. I can picture a black market in supersoft thick toilet roll should any govt impose a return to Izal.

[Sriram]

I am sure if the entire west stops using paper for this purpose and uses water instead (its much cleaner let me add!) it would help in reducing deforestation. Recycling is possible only up to a point.

Another important point I was discussing elsewhere was about female hygiene products. There was an article about how millions of used pads are thrown into garbage heaps every day causing a massive health and disposal problem. They end up in land fills or clog up the drainage.

Reuseable pads are now available but very expensive. The old traditional system of using household cloth that is washed and reused is considered as better for the environment, especially in rural areas.  This article was against the efforts by multinational companies promoting female hygiene products among rural folk.

Lot of little things we don't realize, result in massive damage to the environment.

I wonder about condom disposal too! Literally in millions every day! 

[Nearly Sane]

I am sure if the entire west stops using paper for this purpose and uses water instead (its much cleaner let me add!) it would help in reducing deforestation. Recycling is possible only up to a point.

Another important point I was discussing elsewhere was about female hygiene products. There was an article about how millions of used pads are thrown into garbage heaps every day causing a massive health and disposal problem. They end up in land fills or clog up the drainage.

Reuseable pads are now available but very expensive. The old traditional system of using household cloth that is washed and reused is considered as better for the environment, especially in rural areas.  This article was against the efforts by multinational companies promoting female hygiene products among rural folk.

Lot of little things we don't realize, result in massive damage to the environment.

Writing 'I am sure' is not a method.

[Rhiannon]

Using household cloth chafes and unless you are a lady person you probably don't appreciate the agony.

It's not hard to make reusable pads with cotton and cotton wadding. In fact there are cooperatives in the emerging economies that produce these, by and for women so that they can be independent and attend work or school without needing to take a break.

[Robbie]

i love bidets & think every home should have one in every bathroom. All new houses  built with bidets standard.
Can't imagine not using toilet paper (recyclable) though. This will sound a bit icky but wiping the worst off before using the bidet seems right.

As for femine sanitary products sririam - if you were a woman you would not want to use washable cloths, no way. Revolting. They'd have to be soaked in a tub, then boiled. A household with three or four women there would be three or four tubs; no one would want to accidentally use someone else's cloth. If out they'd be wrapped up and put in handbag. Back to the dark ages. Nöooooooooo There are limits!

[Sriram]

i love bidets & think every home should have one in every bathroom. All new houses  built with bidets standard.
Can't imagine not using toilet paper (recyclable) though. This will sound a bit icky but wiping the worst off before using the bidet seems right.

As for femine sanitary products sririam - if you were a woman you would not want to use washable cloths, no way. Revolting. They'd have to be soaked in a tub, then boiled. A household with three or four women there would be three or four tubs; no one would want to accidentally use someone else's cloth. If out they'd be wrapped up and put in handbag. Back to the dark ages. Nöooooooooo There are limits!

Ok...fair enough...but what is the solution to the problem of disposal and environmental damage?

[Rhiannon]

i love bidets & think every home should have one in every bathroom. All new houses  built with bidets standard.
Can't imagine not using toilet paper (recyclable) though. This will sound a bit icky but wiping the worst off before using the bidet seems right.

As for femine sanitary products sririam - if you were a woman you would not want to use washable cloths, no way. Revolting. They'd have to be soaked in a tub, then boiled. A household with three or four women there would be three or four tubs; no one would want to accidentally use someone else's cloth. If out they'd be wrapped up and put in handbag. Back to the dark ages. Nöooooooooo There are limits!

In some places in the world it's reusables or nothing. In the UK many women opt for mooncups. I use 100% natural and biodegradable products. Brands like Always contain horrific levels of chemicals.

[Robbie]

In some places in the world it's reusables or nothing. In the UK many women opt for mooncups. I use 100% natural and biodegradable products. Brands like Always contain horrific levels of chemicals.

I'm past all that but still have sympathy for those who use them, Natural and biodegradable would get my vote.
Didn't know about moon cups so googled. Interesting, i expect some women find them easier to use than others. Fjrom what I read, you don't feel it inside you which is good.

[floo]

In some places in the world it's reusables or nothing. In the UK many women opt for mooncups. I use 100% natural and biodegradable products. Brands like Always contain horrific levels of chemicals.

I have never heard of moon cups before.

[Rhiannon]

I have never heard of moon cups before.

Women with latex allergy can't use them AFAIK. I know loads of people who swear by them.

[Robbie]

There was a time when women lived together apart from men during their 'time of the moon', it was a precious time to them, they told stories, spoke of private things and cared for eachother. The men were a little afraid, believed women were more powerful at that time.
Excellent  !

(Rhiannon I'm going to read every page of the Searching for God thread, you've piqued my interest.)

Moon cups aren't all made of latex -

http://www.mooncup.co.uk/using-mooncup/is-it-safe-to-use-the-mooncup-if-i-have-a-latex-allergy/

[floo]

I'm going to read every page of the Searching for God thread

That would be like reading 'War and Peace' and just as exciting! I don't think I have ever met anyone who has actually read the whole of that book.

[Rhiannon]

There was a time when women lived together apart from men during their 'time of the moon', it was a precious time to them, they told stories, spoke of private things and cared for eachother. The men were a little afraid, believed women were more powerful at that time.
Excellent  !

(Rhiannon I'm going to read every page of the Searching for God thread, you've piqued my interest.)

Moon cups aren't all made of latex -

http://www.mooncup.co.uk/using-mooncup/is-it-safe-to-use-the-mooncup-if-i-have-a-latex-allergy/

c

Well there you go.

My girls have synchronised moontimes.

[Shaker]

I'm going to read every page of the Searching for God thread

That would be liking reading 'War and Peace' and just as exciting! I don't think I have ever met anyone who has actually read the whole of that book.

I got about three quarters of the way through and was to say the least surprised how readable it is - it's quite the page-turner; it's just very, very, very long.

Remembrance of Things Past (vastly longer) - now that's a slog.

[Rhiannon]

Genuine conversation with an ex:

Me: Not feeling great, I've got my period.

Him: Don't call it that!

Me: Err, ok, why?

Him: It's disgusting!

Me: Err, ok, what do I call it then?

Him: Say you have a whatsit.

 

[floo]

Genuine conversation with an ex:

Me: Not feeling great, I've got my period.

Him: Don't call it that!

Me: Err, ok, why?

Him: It's disgusting!

Me: Err, ok, what do I call it then?

Him: Say you have a whatsit.

 

Weird!

Maybe someone should start a thread to discuss periods and the menopause. Maybe NS might like to do so as he is fast approaching his 1000th thread. I wonder if there is a special award for creating so many topics?

[Robbie]

Very weird!

I read War & Peace a long time ago, couldn't put it down. I intend to read again but would have to put it down frequently now so it must wait until I have more time to myself.
It's very good, i recommend it.

[floo]

Very weird!

I read War & Peace a long time ago, couldn't put it down. I intend to read again but would have to put it down frequently now so it must wait until I have more time to myself.
It's very good, i recommend it.

I started it once, but it was definitely not my sort of book, so I soon gave up the onerous task.

[Robbie]

c

Well there you go.

My girls have synchronised moontimes.

That happens a lot when women live together. If they're regular whichnot everyone is. Imagine boarding schools where everyone has PMT at same time!


(

I started it once, but it was definitely not my sort of book, so I soon gave up the onerous task.

Wonder if it is my sort of book now Floo,my taste is different to when I was younger.
Wish I'd seen the TV drama series.)

[jeremyp]

That happens a lot when women live together. If they're regular whichnot everyone is. Imagine boarding schools where everyone has PMT at same time!

Fortunately, it's apparently an urban myth.

[torridon]

This thread is weird. A discussion about an apocalyptic vision of the future morphs effortlessly into banter about tampons and toilet paper. In a sense, we are all science deniers in that we can't or don't face up to challenges of such magnitude.  We are programmed to be passionate about our nearest and dearest, we give our all for our children, but we care scarcely anything about suffering due to poverty in Somalia or the living conditions for our great grandchildren 100 years hence.

Maybe this is the solution to the Fermi paradox; advanced civilisations self annihilate; to burn brightly means to burn quickly; the characteristics that give rise to success - appetite, hunger for prosperity, contain within them the seeds of eventual downfall.  The spectacular rise of one species does not come cost free; we fund our growth by a sequestering of resources, in the process destroying the balance which underpinned our beginnings.

[Nearly Sane]

Indeed, torridon, and along the way we managed to cover War and Peace! As I noted on one of my earlier posts in a seemingly futile attemot to keep thread on topic, even when we discuss issues that may have an impact such as disposal of our own faecal matter, we seem to do so without any real analysis or facts. This is, in the main, due to it being difficult to find any facts on such subjects because minimal, if any, analysis has been done on huge ranges of activities, because the will isn't really there.

Thus, individuals are forced, either to ignore the impacts of most activities, or apply a set of unvalidated or naive heuristics, so that we end up with 'chemicals bad', or 'primitive good', or 'recycling good' as mantras that we apply unthinkingly and sans numbers. Society seems to work more as a giant conglomerated rule of thumb than anything more scientific. Again as mentioned, it seems we lack both the will and the method to do anything better.

[Sriram]

This thread is weird. A discussion about an apocalyptic vision of the future morphs effortlessly into banter about tampons and toilet paper. In a sense, we are all science deniers in that we can't or don't face up to challenges of such magnitude.  We are programmed to be passionate about our nearest and dearest, we give our all for our children, but we care scarcely anything about suffering due to poverty in Somalia or the living conditions for our great grandchildren 100 years hence.

Maybe this is the solution to the Fermi paradox; advanced civilisations self annihilate; to burn brightly means to burn quickly; the characteristics that give rise to success - appetite, hunger for prosperity, contain within them the seeds of eventual downfall.  The spectacular rise of one species does not come cost free; we fund our growth by a sequestering of resources, in the process destroying the balance which underpinned our beginnings.

It is always the little things that add up and magnify into major catastrophes. The butterfly effect!

Its the toilet papers and the trees cut down for it, the hygiene products and condoms that clog up drainages or end up in landfills or oceans, the coke and drinking water plastic bottles, the little plastic covers that we carry vegetables in, those plastic containers in supermarkets......its all these that add up to the massive plastic and waste problem.   

Of course the industrial pollutants, oil spills, vehicle fumes etc. are very important but the other day to day ones are no less important.  A small change in lifestyle or a little inconvenience can make a large difference in reducing these problems.

Whether we can at this stage reverse or even contain climate change is a different matter. Probably not! But awareness of our individual lifestyle contributions to these problems can help.

[Nearly Sane]

It is always the little things that add up and magnify into major catastrophes. The butterfly effect!

Its the toilet papers and the trees cut down for it, the hygiene products and condoms that clog up drainages or end up in landfills or oceans, the coke and drinking water plastic bottles, the little plastic covers that we carry vegetables in, those plastic containers in supermarkets......its all these that add up to the massive plastic and waste problem.   

Of course the industrial pollutants, oil spills, vehicle fumes etc. are very important but the other day to day ones are no less important.  A small change in lifestyle or a little inconvenience can make a large difference in reducing these problems.

Whether we can at this stage reverse or even contain climate change is a different matter. Probably not! But awareness of our individual lifestyle contributions to these problems can help.

But to because of problems you need to quantify them correctly, not just based on your gut instinct which is what you are applying here to the use of toilet paper. You also have to evaluate what the effects of something are which you obviously didn't do when you talked about menstrual cloths, taking no account of the energy needed to boil water for cleaning. This is indicative of your general bias towards what you see as more traditional solutions and your general blindspot in this area.

BTW you have misunderstood the butterfly effect. It isn't as your representation of it here that many billions of butterflies flapping their wings cause a huge effect, rather that a single wave of a single butterfly's wings can cause a huge effect because of sensitivity to conditions. It's a valid point to raise in terms of the difficulty in determining the pros and cons of any actions taken though.

[Sriram]

But to because of problems you need to quantify them correctly, not just based on your gut instinct which is what you are applying here to the use of toilet paper. You also have to evaluate what the effects of something are which you obviously didn't do when you talked about menstrual cloths, taking no account of the energy needed to boil water for cleaning. This is indicative of your general bias towards what you see as more traditional solutions and your general blindspot in this area.

BTW you have misunderstood the butterfly effect. It isn't as your representation of it here that many billions of butterflies flapping their wings cause a huge effect, rather that a single wave of a single butterfly's wings can cause a huge effect because of sensitivity to conditions. It's a valid point to raise in terms of the difficulty in determining the pros and cons of any actions taken though.

Yes....it is based on a general feeling about the problems caused by our day to day living. 

I understand what the Butterfly effect means. That is why I said that seemingly minor matters add up to create major situations. Toilet paper or tampons may seem like minor lifestyle matters but they are not.