The uninhabitable earth

[SweetPea]

Sriram.... I'm with you on carrying water in a container. I remember when water in plastic bottles came on sale and I couldn't quite get my head round it.... was even more surprised to see people buying water and carrying it around. I think the idea of spring water attracts many but there is also the issue as to how long the water has been contained in the bottle.

Re nappies, disposables only came on the market in the early 80s, and until then we had all managed with the terry towelling nappies. I remember using disposables only on occasions, nowadays they seem to be used all the time. My daughter has a friend that uses the TT nappies but she is the only person I know, no doubt there will be others. 

Otherwise, depending on the strength of the tissue, most will disintegrate fairly quickly.

[Harrowby Hall]

I think that the part of Sriram's message I do not agree with is the assumption that modern practices are harmful to the environment. Not many years ago sewage was dumped in the sea but now, in Britain, sewage is treated so that the effluent (which is discharged into natural watercourses) is clean. The sludge is used as a fertiliser.

In Britain, to the best of my knowledge, most plastics are appropriately recycled. Paper products, formed from cellulose, decompose readily and are part of the sludge which will be used on farmland or are recycled to become part of other paper products. Europe, generally, has effective recycling policies and does not greatly contribute to the plastic waste problem. Waste may also be incinerated and the ash put to some useful purpose.

It may even be that using toilet paper is less costly than water, which has to be purified, transported, and heated, and then, after use, transported and treated before it can be returned to water courses.

[Sriram]

Hi SweetPea...Yes..I agree with you. The 'use and throw'  lifestyle gives rise to greater waste which ends up in rivers and oceans, most of which is non biodegradable. Just imagine millions of plastic bottles, containers,  diapers, condoms, sanitary pads, wet wipes and tissues being thrown in garbage heaps every single day!!  I read somewhere that there will soon be more plastic then fish in the oceans.

Everyone wants to blame governments and factories...but no one wants to change their own lifestyle even a little to help in reducing the problem.   

[Harrowby Hall]

Everyone wants to blame governments and factories...but no one wants to change their own lifestyle even a little to help in reducing the problem.

Over the last couple of years, there has been a near revolution in British retailing. The government has imposed a levy for plastic bags: each (formerly free) plastic bag used by a supermarket customer carries a charge of 5p (which then goes to a good cause). The use of plastic bags has plummeted to about 10% of former usage. Supermarkets also collect used bags for recycling.

Government encouraged behaviour change?

I note that in India lightweight plastic bags are now banned.

[Nearly Sane]

Over the last couple of years, there has been a near revolution in British retailing. The government has imposed a levy for plastic bags: each (formerly free) plastic bag used by a supermarket customer carries a charge of 5p (which then goes to a good cause). The use of plastic bags has plummeted to about 10% of former usage. Supermarkets also collect used bags for recycling.

Government encouraged behaviour change?

I note that in India lightweight plastic bags are now banned.

That should be govts. It was a devolved matter and the charge applied in Wales in 2011, NI 2013, Scotland 2014 and England 2015.

[Harrowby Hall]

You are, of course, quite right NS. I blame the Conservatives.

[Udayana]

In the UK we could do much better on plastics:

Only a third of UK consumer plastic packaging is recycled

Of the 1.5m tonnes of recyclable plastic waste used by consumers in Britain in 2015 only 500,000 tonnes was recycled, according to the figures compiled by Co-op from the Recoup UK Household Plastics Collection survey.

This figure means that the recycling of plastic is considerably below the national average for recycling; currently 45% of recyclable goods are recycled each year.

Ref to survey: Recoup UK Household plastics collection survey

And overall waste recycling in 2015 dropped compared to 2014 - I doubt that was to due to less waste being generated

[Sriram]

One more relevant article on this...

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/23/sport/volvo-ocean-race-dee-caffari-plastics-ocean-health/index.html

************
She's witnessed awe-inspiring sights at sea, but yachtswoman Dee Caffari has also been left "dumbfounded" by the vast floating islands of plastic and rubbish she has seen in the world's oceans.

According to the Plastic Oceans website, 550 million plastic straws are thrown away every day in the US and the UK, while worldwide more than 500 million plastic bottles are used every year and more than one trillion plastic bags are discarded.

More than eight million tonnes of plastic are dumped into the ocean every year, according to the Ellen MacArthur Foundation (EMF). About 50% of it is used once and then discarded, and 91% never recycled.

"We've created this problem for our planet and unless we actively do something about it or stop using it or make manufacturing change it's only going to get worse," says the 44-year-old Caffari.

As well as the visible trash, scientists and environmentalists are worried about the level of micro-plastics in the ocean, minute pieces of plastic less than five millimeters in diameter.

These come from sources such as cosmetics, clothing and industrial processes as well as the breakdown of larger plastic items.

Fish, other sealife and birds mistake it for food. In turn, this plastic enters the human food chain and is ingested by us.

"Plastic is on the menu," warned Prince Charles in his speech in Malta.
 
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[Walter]

One more relevant article on this...

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/23/sport/volvo-ocean-race-dee-caffari-plastics-ocean-health/index.html

************
She's witnessed awe-inspiring sights at sea, but yachtswoman Dee Caffari has also been left "dumbfounded" by the vast floating islands of plastic and rubbish she has seen in the world's oceans.

According to the Plastic Oceans website, 550 million plastic straws are thrown away every day in the US and the UK, while worldwide more than 500 million plastic bottles are used every year and more than one trillion plastic bags are discarded.

More than eight million tonnes of plastic are dumped into the ocean every year, according to the Ellen MacArthur Foundation (EMF). About 50% of it is used once and then discarded, and 91% never recycled.

"We've created this problem for our planet and unless we actively do something about it or stop using it or make manufacturing change it's only going to get worse," says the 44-year-old Caffari.

As well as the visible trash, scientists and environmentalists are worried about the level of micro-plastics in the ocean, minute pieces of plastic less than five millimeters in diameter.

These come from sources such as cosmetics, clothing and industrial processes as well as the breakdown of larger plastic items.

Fish, other sealife and birds mistake it for food. In turn, this plastic enters the human food chain and is ingested by us.

"Plastic is on the menu," warned Prince Charles in his speech in Malta.
 
************

I've just had two plastic sandwiches for my dinner ,,sorry , ham !

[Sebastian Toe]

According to the Plastic Oceans website, 550 million plastic straws are thrown away every day in the US and the UK,

Given that there are 380million people in total between those two countries, that means that every man woman and child uses nearly two straws each, every day!
I would like to know how they worked that one out.

[Walter]

Given that there are 380million people in total between those two countries, that means that every man woman and child uses nearly two straws each, every day!
I would like to know how they worked that one out.

sums mate , sums 

[Sriram]

Plastic pollution has reached the Arctic.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-42990391/plastic-pollution-reaching-record-levels-in-once-pristine-arctic

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Enough doom & gloom. One of the most lifeless placers on the earth is not our fault at all:

The oceanic pole of inaccessibility ( 48° 52′ 36″S 123° 23′ 36″W ) is the place in the ocean that is farthest from land. It lies in the South Pacific Ocean, 2,688 km (1,670 mi) from the nearest lands: Ducie Island (part of the Pitcairn Islands) in the north, Motu Nui (part of the Easter Islands) in the northeast, and Maher Island (near the larger Siple Island, off the coast of Marie Byrd Land, Antarctica) in the south.

Known as "Point Nemo", Latin for "no one" and also a reference to Jules Verne's Captain Nemo, it lies more than 1,400 nautical miles from the nearest land.[16] This point was featured in the short story, The Call of Cthulhu, by H. P. Lovecraft as the location of the fictional city of R'lyeh.

The area is also known as a "spacecraft cemetery" because hundreds of decommissioned satellites, space stations, and other spacecraft have been deposited there upon re-entering the atmosphere to lessen the risk of hitting any inhabited locations.[17] Point Nemo is relatively lifeless; its location within the South Pacific Gyre blocks nutrients from reaching the area, and being so far from land it gets little nutrient run-off from coastal waters.[18]

(Extract from Wiki)

[Sriram]

So...we are ruining Point Nemo too! That's nice!   

[floo]

Human activity is causing harm everywhere on our planet.

[Nearly Sane]

Human activity is causing harm everywhere on our planet.

So to paraphrase Shakespeare - 'First, let's kill all the humans'?

[ippy]

Ah...maybe that's why paper started. Hot water in cold countries!  In India we don't need hot water for such purposes,  though in parts of the north it can get really cold in winter.   

I guess its never so bad during droughts that you don't have water for washing up.  But using paper for this purpose is unknown. We always found it funny that westerners use paper.

Using paper isn't that bad and how about the cost of when we have to keep on changing broken lavatory seats, broken by easterners standing on them, tending to continue their propensity of wanting to continue crapping in the same way they do all over place in the fields etc, in the countries they come from, where there's very little in the way of having something to sit on.

Regards ippy

[Humph Warden Bennett]

So...we are ruining Point Nemo too! That's nice!

Point Nemo is lifeless. So is the Moon. There is nothing to kill.

The Moon can perhaps have some uses in the future, as in Helium 3 mining. Nemo has no use other than philosophical and perhaps artistic reflection as to whether anything that is empty and lifeless can be beautiful.

[Sriram]

Point Nemo is lifeless. So is the Moon. There is nothing to kill.

The Moon can perhaps have some uses in the future, as in Helium 3 mining. Nemo has no use other than philosophical and perhaps artistic reflection as to whether anything that is empty and lifeless can be beautiful.

    There is a ocean surrounding the place HWB!  Its a part of our ecosystem. 

[floo]

    There is a ocean surrounding the place HWB!  Its a part of our ecosystem.

Precisely.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

    There is a ocean surrounding the place HWB!  Its a part of our ecosystem.

No it is not, because the eco system by passes it.

Point Nemo is relatively lifeless; its location within the South Pacific Gyre blocks nutrients from reaching the area, and being so far from land it gets little nutrient run-off from coastal waters.[18]

[Walter]

No it is not, because the eco system by passes it.

Point Nemo is relatively lifeless; its location within the South Pacific Gyre blocks nutrients from reaching the area, and being so far from land it gets little nutrient run-off from coastal waters.[18]

so, part of our Eco system then

[Robbie]

Using paper isn't that bad and how about the cost of when we have to keep on changing broken lavatory seats, broken by easterners standing on them, tending to continue their propensity of wanting to continue crapping in the same way they do all over place in the fields etc, in the countries they come from, where there's very little in the way of having something to sit on.

Regards ippy

You do know some unusual people, ippy  . They come from the East? East Anglia, Essex, East End?

[ippy]

You do know some unusual people, ippy  . They come from the East? East Anglia, Essex, East End?

Like it Rhi, you're right.

Regards ippy

[Sriram]

No it is not, because the eco system by passes it.

Point Nemo is relatively lifeless; its location within the South Pacific Gyre blocks nutrients from reaching the area, and being so far from land it gets little nutrient run-off from coastal waters.[18]

What do you mean ecosystem bypasses it? There is no such thing.

There cannot be anything 'isolated' in the centre of the ocean. Ocean currents move everywhere, marine life is everywhere, bacteria and basic plant life are everywhere.   Space junk dropping into the ocean can ruin marine life.  Microplastics are now a part of the food chain around the world.