What is God?

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

What is God?  Watch this video by Sadhguru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcawFyz1-og

Interesting.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hi everyone,

What is God?  Watch this video by Sadhguru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcawFyz1-og

Interesting.

Cheers.

Sriram

Great speaker, great sense of humour, gentle but profound.

[Sriram]

Yes...I agree QtC.

[torridon]

'Methods of dissolution' could mean anything; it is vague.  If it means shutting down the analytical mind in order to experience something transcendental, then that might be good for the moment of transcendence, but we cannot live without the analytical mind. We can have a nice trip but then have to come back to reality and surely there is danger in overdoing it, in becoming convinced that the transcendental experience is the real reality when it is in fact an altered consciousness state induced through practice.

[ekim]

'Methods of dissolution' could mean anything; it is vague.  If it means shutting down the analytical mind in order to experience something transcendental, then that might be good for the moment of transcendence, but we cannot live without the analytical mind. We can have a nice trip but then have to come back to reality and surely there is danger in overdoing it, in becoming convinced that the transcendental experience is the real reality when it is in fact an altered consciousness state induced through practice.

Methods towards dissolution can vary.  It may be that it is the analytical mind which interprets the methods as an 'either/or' .... shutting down for a period .... coming back to its 'reality' .... and perhaps fears its loss of control.  If, on the other hand, the method is towards a 'both/and' situation then the inner experience and the outer analysis can work in harmony, then consciousness is not so much an altered state but more an expanded condition.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

'Methods of dissolution' could mean anything; it is vague.  If it means shutting down the analytical mind in order to experience something transcendental, then that might be good for the moment of transcendence, but we cannot live without the analytical mind. We can have a nice trip but then have to come back to reality and surely there is danger in overdoing it, in becoming convinced that the transcendental experience is the real reality when it is in fact an altered consciousness state induced through practice.

Two things, I was interested in his use of the word dissolution which I took to be a kind of dissolving. This did not imply, necessarily, destruction of  suspension of everything about a person but could in Christian terms at least be the yielding to God of all of the aspects of one's life to be washed in God's influence. After all there are still sodium and chloride ions in a salt solution. I agree then with your interpretation of this not necessarily being a one way journey.

Secondly isn't the mind when in total analytical mode also in somewhat of an ecstatic state where the self is forgotten about? Is total and irrevocable immersion in that state in fact an altered consciousness state from which we have to return to reality once in a while?

[ekim]

Two things, I was interested in his use of the word dissolution which I took to be a kind of dissolving. This did not imply, necessarily, destruction of  suspension of everything about a person but could in Christian terms at least be the yielding to God of all of the aspects of one's life to be washed in God's influence. After all there are still sodium and chloride ions in a salt solution. I agree then with your interpretation of this not necessarily being a one way journey.

It's difficult to know what 'Christian terms' are, especially when it come to the term 'God'.  I get the impression that most do not see the relationship of God with man as a dissolving of one into the other but more as a joining of one with the other where boundaries are maintained.  The word 'religion' which meant 'rebind' seems to suggest this.  The mystics appear to suggest 'union', one-ness, at-one-ment, like a rain drop merging with the ocean where the 'self' identity is washed away and the divine prevails.

[Sriram]

It's difficult to know what 'Christian terms' are, especially when it come to the term 'God'.  I get the impression that most do not see the relationship of God with man as a dissolving of one into the other but more as a joining of one with the other where boundaries are maintained.  The word 'religion' which meant 'rebind' seems to suggest this.  The mystics appear to suggest 'union', one-ness, at-one-ment, like a rain drop merging with the ocean where the 'self' identity is washed away and the divine prevails.

Yes...in fact the whole idea of salvation or liberation or mukti (according to Advaita) is equated to rivers flowing back into the ocean from where they came initially. Of course, there are some schools of Vedanta (Dwaita and Vishistadvaita) which argue for a separate existence.

[Sriram]

'Methods of dissolution' could mean anything; it is vague.  If it means shutting down the analytical mind in order to experience something transcendental, then that might be good for the moment of transcendence, but we cannot live without the analytical mind. We can have a nice trip but then have to come back to reality and surely there is danger in overdoing it, in becoming convinced that the transcendental experience is the real reality when it is in fact an altered consciousness state induced through practice.

These matters can never be crystal clear. Vagueness is both due to the abstract nature of these experiences and also due to our own lack of experience and therefore inability to identify with such experiences. 

Leaving aside words such a soul, spirit, God etc.. just take the Unconscious mind for example.  I know that you think of the Unconscious as some kind of an appendage or extra fitting to the conscious mind. But considering Freud, Jung and recent scientific findings, the Conscious mind is said to be like a closet  in a mansion compared to the Unconscious mind.   

Suppose we allow our conscious mind to 'dissolve' into the Unconscious mind, it will not limit us rather it will expand our awareness. 

And this is not a transcendental experience. Nothing unnatural or supernatural about it. It is all perfectly natural because the unconscious mind is a normal part of what we are.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's difficult to know what 'Christian terms' are, especially when it come to the term 'God'.  I get the impression that most do not see the relationship of God with man as a dissolving of one into the other but more as a joining of one with the other where boundaries are maintained.  The word 'religion' which meant 'rebind' seems to suggest this.  The mystics appear to suggest 'union', one-ness, at-one-ment, like a rain drop merging with the ocean where the 'self' identity is washed away and the divine prevails.

Only Christian mystics would probably explicitly talk of a dissolving. The idea though of a thorough washing by God is not unknown in standard Christian thinking and is a staple in the hymns. Christianity actually sometimes goes further talking about becoming one and an idea of a solution is not totally incompatible with the idea of being 'in christ' say.

[torridon]

. 

Leaving aside words such a soul, spirit, God etc.. just take the Unconscious mind for example.  I know that you think of the Unconscious as some kind of an appendage or extra fitting to the conscious mind.

I don't think that at all, the opposite would be closer.  Conscious mind is a small fraction of unconscious mind, consisting of just those elements currently elevated to the highest attentional state.

. 
..But considering Freud, Jung and recent scientific findings, the Conscious mind is said to be like a closet  in a mansion compared to the Unconscious mind.   

Suppose we allow our conscious mind to 'dissolve' into the Unconscious mind, it will not limit us rather it will expand our awareness. 

Conscious mind dissipates every time we go to sleep, I don't think that expands our awareness, quite the opposite. I guess what is being described by 'dissolves' is something entirely different.  Maybe it is the ego being dissipated.

[Sriram]

I don't think that at all, the opposite would be closer.  Conscious mind is a small fraction of unconscious mind, consisting of just those elements currently elevated to the highest attentional state.

Conscious mind dissipates every time we go to sleep, I don't think that expands our awareness, quite the opposite. I guess what is being described by 'dissolves' is something entirely different.  Maybe it is the ego being dissipated.

Yes.....that's right  Its the ego that dissipates and the consciousness shifts upwards.

[Sassy]

Hi everyone,

What is God?  Watch this video by Sadhguru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcawFyz1-og

Interesting.

Cheers.

Sriram

Man spends too much time thinking of how a man thinks about God.
God is a Spirit... neither male or female. Man created in Gods image.

Presence and power....

I still fail sometimes to see how man can really believe that a cow is sacred and more important than the well-being of a human? Man tends to reflect God into the creation that to see God as the creator of Creation.

Whilst where we will live will have an affect on what we consciously believe, what we experience has a far greater affect on us,

Not sure Sriram, if that really helps. God has to be an hands on God to be a real God.

[floo]

Man spends too much time thinking of how a man thinks about God.
God is a Spirit... neither male or female. Man created in Gods image.

Presence and power....

I still fail sometimes to see how man can really believe that a cow is sacred and more important than the well-being of a human? Man tends to reflect God into the creation that to see God as the creator of Creation.

Whilst where we will live will have an affect on what we consciously believe, what we experience has a far greater affect on us,

Not sure Sriram, if that really helps. God has to be an hands on God to be a real God.

Your belief, to which you are entitled, but it isn't a fact.

[Sriram]

Man spends too much time thinking of how a man thinks about God.
God is a Spirit... neither male or female. Man created in Gods image.

Presence and power....

I still fail sometimes to see how man can really believe that a cow is sacred and more important than the well-being of a human? Man tends to reflect God into the creation that to see God as the creator of Creation.

Whilst where we will live will have an affect on what we consciously believe, what we experience has a far greater affect on us,

Not sure Sriram, if that really helps. God has to be an hands on God to be a real God.

The question is...what is God? Is he a anthropomorphic being somewhere out there or is he a part of our basic personality that we need to identify and realize?! That is the question.

[Shaker]

The question is...what is God? Is he a anthropomorphic being somewhere out there or is he a part of our basic personality that we need to identify and realize?! That is the question.

And one which goddists typically answer in the former case not the latter, since a god 'out there', if you can convince people to take it seriously, can be used to lord it over people and to control them in a way that the latter case cannot.

Also: who says there's a 'need' to do anything of the kind?

[Sriram]

And one which goddists typically answer in the former case not the latter, since a god 'out there', if you can convince people to take it seriously, can be used to lord it over people and to control them in a way that the latter case cannot.

Also: who says there's a 'need' to do anything of the kind?

Actually, its not as simple as that, Shaker.  For the human mind to look inward and identify a part of its own personality as God....is nearly impossible till the person attains a certain level of  emotional and intellectual  balance. The animal/human mind is primarily outward looking, relying almost entirely on the senses for inputs.

That is why it is necessary to have external gods and deities.....in spite of the fact that many people from ancient times have taught that 'God is within'. 

Once a person feels that within him is a more noble and powerful personality....the 'need' to realize it will be felt.  Till then it cannot be explained.

[Shaker]

Actually, its not as simple as that, Shaker.  For the human mind to look inward and identify a part of its own personality as God....is nearly impossible till the person attains a certain level of  emotional and intellectual  balance. The animal/human mind is primarily outward looking, relying almost entirely on the senses for inputs.

That is why it is necessary to have external gods and deities

Necessary for whom?

Once a person feels that within him is a more noble and powerful personality....the 'need' to realize it will be felt.  Till then it cannot be explained.

Not by you, evidently.

[Sriram]

Necessary for whom?
Not by you, evidently.

   OK...G'night!

[torridon]

The question is...what is God? Is he a anthropomorphic being somewhere out there or is he a part of our basic personality that we need to identify and realize?! That is the question.

I think the latter is closer to truth than the former. 

The idea of a supreme being existing independently somewhere in isolation makes no sense to me and its blatantly anthropocentric nature with all its focus uniquely on the doings of human beings with scarcely a mention of anything else betrays it as a construction of parochial and narcissistic human mind that conceives with murmur that everything was created with it in mind.  That god is a projection of human pyschology and product of human culture is the only viable explanation for theism imo.  If humans hadn't evolved, what then of God ?

[Sriram]

I think the latter is closer to truth than the former. 

The idea of a supreme being existing independently somewhere in isolation makes no sense to me and its blatantly anthropocentric nature with all its focus uniquely on the doings of human beings with scarcely a mention of anything else betrays it as a construction of parochial and narcissistic human mind that conceives with murmur that everything was created with it in mind.  That god is a projection of human pyschology and product of human culture is the only viable explanation for theism imo.  If humans hadn't evolved, what then of God ?

Actually the Truth is probably much more complex than we can imagine.   It is true that taking a pantheist view, God or the Universal Being is believed to transform itself into the world.....much the same way that scientists believe that the String transforms itself into the world by vibrating in multiple dimensions (whatever that means). 

It is this inner fundamental reality that most mystics seek.

Having said that however, that does not mean that external gods and spiritual beings cannot exit or that they don't have any influence on our world.  Whatever transforms itself into the world is one level of Supreme Being  but in the created world itself various levels of beings could exist with higher levels of consciousness and with powers to control certain aspects of the universe.  These two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Secondly, your perception appears to be that the inner consciousness is a product of evolution.  My view is that the inner consciousness is a fundamental aspect of reality, which is revealed through evolution, not created by it. 

[floo]

Of course it is just possible a god or gods could exist, however if that is the case I very much doubt they are in contact with humans. I think people tend to create their version of  god, which suits their take on life.

[trippymonkey]

Would YOU if you could see what absolute D-Heads we can be ?!!?!?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Of course it is just possible a god or gods could exist,

fair point

however if that is the case I very much doubt they are in contact with humans.

The justifications for this line include, once you accept the possibility, lack of interest by them...How does that square with having created the universe?, size...yes, seemingly, we are too wee...intelligence...which would require god to be somehow ignorant that we have it...or that we are just morally downright not good enough.
Of course I don't see any of the above as a convincing argument for why a big G type god would be avoiding us.

I think people tend to create their version of  god, which suits their take on life.

Please develop this idea, have you gone into this deeply? I have to say that I would be far more amenable to hearing you express what you mean by this than listening to the other guys in the Posse.
Actually I recall at a point of divine awareness becoming aware that He was not my ideal God(he didn't suit me at the time.) but since that is what one becomes aware of you can hardly reject on that basis.

[floo]

fair pointThe justifications for this line include, once you accept the possibility, lack of interest by them...How does that square with having created the universe?, size...yes, seemingly, we are too wee...intelligence...which would require god to be somehow ignorant that we have it...or that we are just morally downright not good enough.
Of course I don't see any of the above as a convincing argument for why a big G type god would be avoiding us.Please develop this idea, have you gone into this deeply? I have to say that I would be far more amenable to hearing you express what you mean by this than listening to the other guys in the Posse.
Actually I recall at a point of divine awareness becoming aware that He was not my ideal God(he didn't suit me at the time.) but since that is what one becomes aware of you can hardly reject on that basis.

My point is that if a god exists why aren't be all aware of its existence in a way which can't be denied by anyone? For instance, we can all see the sun, moon and stars, and there is plenty of verifiable evidence they aren't an illusion. So if god is there, but making its existence a matter of faith, it is treating humankind very unfairly, especially if there are dire consequences for unbelief, as some folk believe to be the case.