Quoting Jesus

[Shaker]

I get the impression AB thinks the 'soul' is unrelated to the brain and consciousness and is a separate entity.

In religious terms that's pretty much the standard definition, isn't it?

[Rhiannon]

Stick with science and you will no doubt miss out on any purpose in life.
Because science alone is incapable of defining or discovering purpose or meaning.

So what purpose does your faith give you?

[wigginhall]

I get the impression AB thinks the 'soul' is unrelated to the brain and consciousness and is a separate entity.

Historically interesting, as it seems to go back to Descartes, who had a soul/body split.  Trouble is, you then have to show how they connect.   Having said that, I think you can see this idea in Plato also.

Another view comes down from Aristotle, where the soul is the 'form' of the body.  Trouble is, it's difficult say what this means, but people are still attracted to the view, since there is less separation.

Or of course, you can see soul as psyche, which makes it psychological.  A more modern view.

[Shaker]

We give ourselves purpose.

The only 'real' purpose in life is to procreate.

I understand how scare quotes work yet I can't make out what work they're doing in your second sentence, unless you're using the word real in its metaphorical gene's-eye-view sense.

Either last night or the night before there was one of those cheap and cheerless documentaries (Channel 5 is the usual culprit for this sort of tat) about a woman who has had (IIRC) 12 children and who has done so while living on benefits. I didn't see the programme, only read the description; as far as I can make out this seems to be the beginning and end of any reason why she should have her 60 minutes including ad breaks in the public spotlight.

Meanwhile, Michelangelo, Leonardo, Newton, Beethoven, Nietzsche, Van Gogh and innumerable others died childless. I'm not saying that there's some sort of objective, external standard of the pointfulness or pointlessness of a human life (exactly the opposite, actually); but I am saying that, given the fact that you're only ever one generation away from the end of your genetic line (i.e. you may produce children who do not themselves reproduce), the capacity for having children seems a thin rationale on which to hang the point/meaning/purpose of a life.

[Shaker]

So what purpose does your faith give you?

Agreed. This seems merely to kick the problem back an extra step. The theist may say that (their belief in) a god gives life purpose, but this comes at the expense of quietly gliding over the questions that this engenders and pretending that nobody else has noticed. How and why would a god create purpose(s)? Just why would or should its (assumed; presumed) purpose(s) be mine anyway? If the theist can terminate his infinite regress at a god, I can terminate mine at the things in my life that I enjoy and find interesting, pleasurable, meaningful and worthwhile. And in my case, with validation and justification.

[ippy]

I think you may have misunderstood - "Boss Tim" refers to Tim Martin, the boss of the whole of Wetherspoons, who is notoriously
 sensibly pro-Brexit. He's not my personal boss, so I won't be sucking up to him. I simply drink in his pubs (not very much - his firm would have collapsed if all were like me).

ippy

[BeRational]

I understand how scare quotes work yet I can't make out what work they're doing in your second sentence, unless you're using the word real in its metaphorical gene's-eye-view sense.

Either last night or the night before there was one of those cheap and cheerless documentaries (Channel 5 is the usual culprit for this sort of tat) about a woman who has had (IIRC) 12 children and who has done so while living on benefits. I didn't see the programme, only read the description; as far as I can make out this seems to be the beginning and end of any reason why she should have her 60 minutes including ad breaks in the public spotlight.

Meanwhile, Michelangelo, Leonardo, Newton, Beethoven, Nietzsche, Van Gogh and innumerable others died childless. I'm not saying that there's some sort of objective, external standard of the pointfulness or pointlessness of a human life (exactly the opposite, actually); but I am saying that, given the fact that you're only ever one generation away from the end of your genetic line (i.e. you may produce children who do not themselves reproduce), the capacity for having children seems a thin rationale on which to hang the point/meaning/purpose of a life.

It was me, saying there is no objective purpose to our lives, and we make that purpose for ourself.

Genes just 'want' to continue, so a very limited view of purpose, would be simply to keep living and produce more life.

That seems to be how we are designed by evolution.

[ippy]

By the argument from ignorance fallacy. He cannot understand how the brain can do what it does, so he invents a soul to make the problem go away.

I know it's difficult, but I'm certain Alan sincerely believes in this soul idea of his, for me it shows how vulnerable some of us are to indoctrination into all sorts of mad ideas, I dare say it's only luck with a combination of how D N A influenced the development of my own brain and my upbringing, that I have managed to avoid a similar fate to Alan, it could have been any one of us.

The good side for Alan is he goes to all of these reinforcement meetings with his fellow travellers waving their hands to the sky singing and picking up more pamphlets about all sorts of religion based topics, they all seem to be quite happy, not doing a lot of harm, as long as it stops there and they're not still expecting privileges for these beliefs, good on em, keeps em happy.

ippy

[BeRational]

I know it's difficult, but I'm certain Alan sincerely believes in this soul idea of his, for me it shows how vulnerable some of us are to indoctrination into all sorts of mad ideas, I dare say it's only luck with a combination of how D N A influenced the development of my own brain and my upbringing, that I have managed to avoid a similar fate to Alan, it could have been any one of us.

The good side for Alan is he goes to all of these reinforcement meetings with his fellow travellers waving their hands to the sky singing and picking up more pamphlets about all sorts of religion based topics, they all seem to be quite happy, not doing a lot of harm, as long as it stops there and they're not still expecting privileges for these beliefs, good on em, keeps em happy.

ippy

I think the harm they do, is that they infect young vulnerable people with all this nonsense.

He is a carrier wanting to infect young minds, that are not yet able to counter the irrationalism he displays.

[ippy]

I think the harm they do, is that they infect young vulnerable people with all this nonsense.

He is a carrier wanting to infect young minds, that are not yet able to counter the irrationalism he displays.

I'll go with you 100%, it's a very dark aspect of all these beliefs, how do we save the children from them?

ippy

 

[Nearly Sane]

I'll go with you 100%, it's a very dark aspect of all these beliefs, how do we save the children from them?

ippy

 

Camps? Do you want my mother's address to help you round her up. She's 87 but she infected 4 children.

[Walter]

I'll go with you 100%, it's a very dark aspect of all these beliefs, how do we save the children from them?

ippy

 

we know who they are, we should ............................................

[Walter]

Camps? Do you want my mother's address to help you round her up. She's 87 but she infected 4 children.

age is no hiding place

[Nearly Sane]

age is no hiding place

My father's dead but you might want to unperson him by vaporising.

[ippy]

Camps? Do you want my mother's address to help you round her up. She's 87 but she infected 4 children.

Perhaps it's better to not over react, just start with odd few very selective death squads say only doing about a couple of thousand a day for starters.


ippy



 (Not being serious).

[Nearly Sane]

Perhaps it's better to not over react, just start with odd few very selective death squads say only doing about a couple of thousand a day for starters.


ippy



 (Not being serious).

Phew! However the lazy use of disease as a metaphor that you were happily indulging in with others is the sort of rhetoric that is hard to distinguish from other ways of dehumanising people.

[ippy]

Phew! However the lazy use of disease as a metaphor that you were happily indulging in with others is the sort of rhetoric that is hard to distinguish from other ways of dehumanising people.

I didn't introduce disease into the frame, not guilty, it's more to do with the lottery of our D N A and our upbringing, for me, that makes the Alan and the likes of Alan somehow more susceptible to indoctrination.

I have to admit I find it somewhat depressing/disappointing seeing very young vulnerable children being dragged along to various meetings of the religious variety by their various guardians/parents.   

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

I didn't introduce disease into the frame, not guilty, it's more to do with the lottery of our D N A and our upbringing, for me, that makes the Alan and the likes of Alan somehow more susceptible to indoctrination.

I have to admit I find it somewhat depressing/disappointing seeing very young vulnerable children being dragged along to various meetings of the religious variety by their various guardians/parents.   

ippy

Didn't say you introduced it. That would be BeRational in #615, to which you in #616 said you went along with it 100%. So you did go along 100% with the lazy rhetoric.

[Walter]

Didn't say you introduced it. That would be BeRational in #615, to which you in #616 said you went along with it 100%. So you did go along 100% with the lazy rhetoric.

Lazy Rhetoric ? I used to go to school with him !

[ippy]

Didn't say you introduced it. That would be BeRational in #615, to which you in #616 said you went along with it 100%. So you did go along 100% with the lazy rhetoric.

Religion does behave in a very similar way to disease, so it would make it debatable dependent on each individuals view, I am unable to see much in the way of a benefit coming from the direction of religions, any of them, pity the authorities can't put something in our water supply. You know N S, it's getting rid of the bodies that's the problem.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

Religion does behave in a very similar way to disease, so it would make it debatable dependent on each individuals view, I am unable to see much in the way of a benefit coming from the direction of religions, any of them, pity the authorities can't put something in our water supply. You know N S, it's getting rid of the bodies that's the problem.

ippy

So you are happy to use the type of dehumanising and as long as you you put 'just joking' at the end any effect of that doesn't matter.

In what way does religion behave similarly to disease?  If you want to go down the meme route, it's worth noting that you are then saying non religion and all human communication and thought is like disease which means singling out religion is illogical.

[Nearly Sane]

Lazy Rhetoric ? I used to go to school with him !

Big lad? Sat at the back? Used to trip up smaller kids and say 'Don't fall, it gets you down?'

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

While I slightly agree and have a modicum of sympathy with this view, I can't go along with it. We have much too much of this clownish shit in the world and it needs to be challenged and challenged hard. Weeds only thrive when left alone.

Well, you need to up your game. All this allegedly clownish shit around and all you can offer to challenge it is ... what exactly?

[floo]

Well, you need to up your game. All this allegedly clownish shit around and all you can offer to challenge it is ... what exactly?

You have no evidence to support your POV on faith.

[Shaker]

Well, you need to up your game. All this allegedly clownish shit around and all you can offer to challenge it is ... what exactly?

Reason.

That's why there are so many irrational clowns: they don't possess any. The 'game' is perfectly fine as it is already and needs no upping, but as a famous man once said, trying to use reason with someone who has renounced it is like giving medicine to a corpse.