Quoting Jesus

[Sassy]

As far as most non-Christians on this forum - me being one - are concerned that is all Sassy ever does and, until she can admit that her entire religion has no basis in fact, that is the way it will stay!

It gets your back up that you cannot produce an argument to refute the fact God exists or that you have never taken steps to know the truth. The fact the religion exists and God kept his Promises to Abraham stands more as evidence immovable than any comment or statement you make. You don't know the religion well enough to cast dispersions on the faith of others.
You choose what you want to believe without any self searching or examination of truth.

[Sassy]

Owls,

Yes, but have you not noticed that she uses CAPITAL LETTERS? So that must make her really bad attempts at arguments into really good ones then mustn't it?

MUSTN'T IT?

I see your lack of argument is affecting your morale. Never mind bluey, you have to admit that your attempts at sarcasm are even worse.  I guess some times TRUTH is wasted on those who think they already know everything having never SEARCHED.
Do you know the difference. The words in capitals are the clues...

[Owlswing]

I see your lack of argument is affecting your morale. Never mind bluey, you have to admit that your attempts at sarcasm are even worse.  I guess some times TRUTH is wasted on those who think they already know everything having never SEARCHED.
Do you know the difference. The words in capitals are the clues...

Honestly Sass, if bulls**t was brains your head would explode!

I have said before and I will say again - if I want to discuss the possible existence of God (specifically the Christian version) I will do it with the Wailing Wall, the Statue of Liberty, Big Ben (the bell and not the tower it lives in) and Donald Trump rather than with you because that way I would get a sensible and factual discussion on ther subject! Or, AT LEAST, more sensible and fsactual that I (or anyone else ever will) with you!

You Sassy, DO NOT DISCUSS, you PONTIFICATE! You DO NOT DIsCUSS, you state FAITH as being FACT, which it IS NOT!

I did not need to SEARCH for GOD - He was handed to me on a plate by my father from the day I was old enough to be lectured to about him.

[Robbie]

As far as most non-Christians on this forum - me being one - are concerned that is all Sassy ever does and, until she can admit that her entire religion has no basis in fact, that is the way it will stay!

Maybe but I was jesting about faeries - tho' they could exist(I once thought I saw one in my bedroom light fitting, I was about five at the time). A little girl used to live next door to us who saw them regularly, she's a big grown up doctor now with children of her own, i'll have to ask her if she still meets with them.

Sass is a Christian, you can hardly expect her to diss her faith can you?

[floo]

It is WRONG to claim something is the truth when it can only be a matter of belief, it is tantamount to telling lies.

[Shaker]

It is WRONG to claim something is the truth when it can only be a matter of belief, it is tantamount to telling lies.

No it isn't. To lie is to consciously and deliberately tell a falsehood intending to mislead and deceive; it's not at all the same as being genuinely mistaken, or sincerely believing something to be the case but being wrong about it. There's no element of conscious deception involved in the latter cases as there is with lying.

[floo]

No it isn't. To lie is to consciously and deliberately tell a falsehood intending to mislead and deceive; it's not at all the same as being genuinely mistaken, or sincerely believing something to be the case but being wrong about it. There's no element of conscious deception involved in the latter cases as there is with lying.

Hmmmmmmmmm!

[Shaker]

If there's something amiss with what I said, by all means say so. If Sass genuinely believes in the stuff she comes out with, she's not lying if she states it as something she believes to be the case.

Now of course there's a whole other world of problems besides, but lying isn't one of them.

[floo]

If there's something amiss with what I said, by all means say so.

I disagree, if you state something as a fact when it isn't, it is a lie, imo.

[Shaker]

I disagree, if you state something as a fact when it isn't, it is a lie, imo.

No, since to lie is to knowingly tell a falsehood with the intent of deceiving others. It's not to state something which you genuinely believe to be true. Unless you think it's the case that Sassy states things she doesn't as a matter of fact believe, she isn't lying.

Stating as a fact something that no one can know to be true is seventy shades of stupid for sure, but if that something is believed to be the case no lying is involved.

[floo]

No, since to lie is to knowingly tell a falsehood with the intent of deceiving others. It's not to state something which you genuinely believe to be true. Unless you think it's the case that Sassy states things she doesn't as a matter of fact believe, she isn't lying.

Stating as a fact something that no one can know to be true is seventy shades of stupid for sure, but if that something is believed to be the case no lying is involved.

I don't see it that way, so we will have to agree to differ.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see it that way, so we will have to agree to differ.

Except given Shaker is right about lying and you are wrong, you are effectively arguing that you are expressing an opinion you think is tantamount to lying.

[Owlswing]

Maybe but I was jesting about faeries - tho' they could exist(I once thought I saw one in my bedroom light fitting, I was about five at the time). A little girl used to live next door to us who saw them regularly, she's a big grown up doctor now with children of her own, i'll have to ask her if she still meets with them.

Sass is a Christian, you can hardly expect her to diss her faith can you?

I am NOT (doing a Sass!) asking her to diss her faith. I have no problem with her having her faith - even her Faith - but I do have a problem with her insisting that the Bible is a 100.00% accurate historical record, that every single word is the, quite literally, God's Honest truth and that anyone who does not believe this must be browbeaten with quotes from the Bible, in bold, until they admit that they have been wrong all along and that Sass is right!

I have said that I was brought up in my falther's faith, High Church Anglican, Sunday School started on the first Sunday after I entered school and continued until I was eleven when I transferred to the adult services.

At fifteen I joined the Junior Leaders Regiment of the Royal Armoured Corps (the Regiment was, sadly, disbanded some years ago) and at the first Church parade (attendance was compulsory) our Padre, a much bemedalled WWII D-Day paratrooper, gave a sermon on the Ten Commandments.

When he got to the Sixth my belief in Christianity shot out through the window!

"Thou shalt not kill!"

Preached to soldiers! WTF!

I am now a Pagan - and I am, as previously stated, perfectly at ease with the FACT that my beliefs are nothing more than a statement of FAITH!

I will get off Sass's santimonious back when she grows a set and admits that her beliefs are faith and not fact!

   

[Nearly Sane]

I am NOT (doing a Sass!) asking her to diss her faith. I have no problem with her having her faith - even her Faith - but I do have a problem with her insisting that the Bible is a 100.00% accurate historical record, that every single word is the, quite literally, God's Honest truth and that anyone who does not believe this must be browbeaten with quotes from the Bible, in bold, until they admit that they have been wrong all along and that Sass is right!

I have said that I was brought up in my falther's faith, High Church Anglican, Sunday School started on the first Sunday after I entered school and continued until I was eleven when I transferred to the adult services.

At fifteen I joined the Junior Leaders Regiment of the Royal Armoured Corps (the Regiment was, sadly, disbanded some years ago) and at the first Church parade (attendance was compulsory) our Padre, a much bemedalled WWII D-Day paratrooper, gave a sermon on the Ten Commandments.

When he got to the Sixth my belief in Christianity shot out through the window!

"Thou shalt not kill!"

Preached to soldiers! WTF!

I am now a Pagan - and I am, as previously stated, perfectly at ease with the FACT that my beliefs are nothing more than a statement of FAITH!

I will get off Sass's santimonious back when she grows a set and admits that her beliefs are faith and not fact!

   

Except the idea that it means you can never kill is incorrect in what the Hebrew means and in what was the intention of the writers of the KJV and others.

See link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill

[BeRational]

I don't see it that way, so we will have to agree to differ.

If you believe what you say is true, then you are not telling a lie.

There are issues about some things that are claimed, when the person claiming it has a strong conviction (perhaps without justification that it is true), but that is a different issue, and not them telling lies.

[floo]

If you believe what you say is true, then you are not telling a lie.

There are issues about some things that are claimed, when the person claiming it has a strong conviction (perhaps without justification that it is true), but that is a different issue, and not them telling lies.

But stating something to be a FACT when you have no evidence to substantiate it isn't telling the truth.

[BeRational]

But stating something to be a FACT when you have no evidence to substantiate it isn't telling the truth.

Then they are just not very good at stating facts.
They do believe it to be true (when they may have no good reason to!), so they are not telling lies, they are not perhaps so good at knowing how to tell when something can be stated as fact.

Plus, absolute certainty on anything is a problem.

[floo]

Then they are just not very good at stating facts.
They do believe it to be true (when they may have no good reason to!), so they are not telling lies, they are not perhaps so good at knowing how to tell when something can be stated as fact.

Plus, absolute certainty on anything is a problem.

Why is absolute certainty a problem if it can be proved?

[BeRational]

Why is absolute certainty a problem if it can be proved?

Because proof is only available in mathematics.

You cannot prove anything to 100% certainty.

[Nearly Sane]

But stating something to be a FACT when you have no evidence to substantiate it isn't telling the truth.

It's your opinion that they have no evidence, it isn't Sass's. Ergo she isn't lying.

[Nearly Sane]

Because proof is only available in mathematics.

You cannot prove anything to 100% certainty.

Are you certain that proof is available in maths?

[BeRational]

Are you certain that proof is available in maths?

We made up the rules, so I guess we get to say if it follows the rules, it is fact.

But, I am no good at maths anyway.

[Maeght]

Sassy isn't lying.

[floo]

It's your opinion that they have no evidence, it isn't Sass's. Ergo she isn't lying.

There is no evidence, which can be substantiated.

[Nearly Sane]

There is no evidence, which can be substantiated.

In your opinion, Sassy's sees it differently.