BBC pay.

[Aruntraveller]

Indeed I 'm sure that Murdoch is rubbing his greedy little palms together somewhere.

That many cannot see this and are spluttering with incoherent rage all over t'internet only serves to confirm my feeling that large parts of this nation have been driven mad by a diet of shite that they are fed constantly by the media - for which the BBC does share some responsibility.

A plague on all ....etc.

[Nearly Sane]

It may do, though I think that it's role makes it difficult to avoid in many ways. It is by nature part of an establishment, if not the establishment, and the whole idea of completely disinterested reporting is a nonsense. It's also vast and made up of many different views and approaches. I son:t buy the simplistic notion of if it is being attacked from 'left' and 'right' that it is doing g a good job but I also don't think it has a group conscience in the way that people seem to think.


It may well have reached a place where its current hybrid form that is neither public nor private sector is unsustainable but it would behove us to take any change with very serious consideration.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Rhiannon merely asked a question, rather than out forward an argument, in response to one of Vlad's slightly prismatic DM rants. I think people have to be careful here of doing exactly what the Tories want. Vlad and JC are merrily readying the tumbrils and the knitting, while Murdoch applauds.

I can't see JC cutting BBC pay and not at least extending that to other operators.
Unlike the Tories who conceived of this ruse to further the interests of the commercial broadcasters JC will have no desire to further their aims and I think you forget that even Miliband in opposition halted the advance of news international and Corbyn overturned it by live appearances and social media.

This scheme was hatched under the old certainties. Now it just gives people the urge to turn over other stones and puts the richest wherever they are getting their crust on the defensive.

If it at least makes people question paying people exorbitant sums for chatting, kicking a ball around and mumming it's all been worthwhile.

[Udayana]

Indeed I 'm sure that Murdoch is rubbing his greedy little palms together somewhere.

That many cannot see this and are spluttering with incoherent rage all over t'internet only serves to confirm my feeling that large parts of this nation have been driven mad by a diet of shite that they are fed constantly by the media - for which the BBC does share some responsibility.

A plague on all ....etc.

I, for one, don't see a problem/trap. Please explain or provide more detail.

[Rhiannon]

I, for one, don't see a problem/trap. Please explain or provide more detail.

Eventual abolition of the license fee, all commercial channels with Sky as the daddy.

[Udayana]

Some may have that as an objective, but it is not an inevitable outcome of transparency at the BBC or more public influence in how it is managed.

[Nearly Sane]

I, for one, don't see a problem/trap. Please explain or provide more detail.

Well the current specific trap, is that by getting JC to declare that the BBC is just a normal part of the public sector, rather than a weird hybrid, the Govt can point to Chris Evans as a public sector wage and say 'See, public sector workers are paid huge amounts of money, so the public sector pay cap should continue', ignoring, of course, that it doesn't apply to Evans.

[Nearly Sane]

I can't see JC cutting BBC pay and not at least extending that to other operators.
Unlike the Tories who conceived of this ruse to further the interests of the commercial broadcasters JC will have no desire to further their aims and I think you forget that even Miliband in opposition halted the advance of news international and Corbyn overturned it by live appearances and social media.

This scheme was hatched under the old certainties. Now it just gives people the urge to turn over other stones and puts the richest wherever they are getting their crust on the defensive.

If it at least makes people question paying people exorbitant sums for chatting, kicking a ball around and mumming it's all been worthwhile.

Except JC has specifically talked about doing this because it is public sector, and it allows the Tories to say that public sector workers are well rewarded so the pay cap can continue. You have fallen into the trap because you have some vision of the sunny uplift lands and your grasp, as with JC, of tactics is non existent.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Except JC has specifically talked about doing this because it is public sector, and it allows the Tories to say that public sector workers are well rewarded so the pay cap can continue. You have fallen into the trap because you have some vision of the sunny uplift lands and your grasp, as with JC, of tactics is non existent.

Not sure of the idea of Len Goodman or GaryLineker as public service worker.

Any argument along those lines pales in the light of what Hammond has done. In many respects Hammond is the last hoorah of a popular Toryism which pits private worker against public in some perverse bumfight and at this stage in the game one wonders how much mileage that has.

[Rhiannon]

The thing is, it is legitimate to criticise the BBC for its gender pay gap. It's appallingly bad.

[Udayana]

Well the current specific trap, is that by getting JC to declare that the BBC is just a normal part of the public sector, rather than a weird hybrid, the Govt can point to Chris Evans as a public sector wage and say 'See, public sector workers are paid huge amounts of money, so the public sector pay cap should continue', ignoring, of course, that it doesn't apply to Evans.

People are already well aware that, say, nurses pay is in no way comparable to that of NHS executives, doubt that anyone would accept that it is equitable with John Humphrey's. 

Tories making such a claim would easily be demolished. Also, it is fairly clear that even the highest BBC salaries are nowhere in the region of the highest in commercial broadcasting.

[Nearly Sane]

People are already well aware that, say, nurses pay is in no way comparable to that of NHS executives, doubt that anyone would accept that it is equitable with John Humphrey's. 

Tories making such a claim would easily be demolished. Also, it is fairly clear that even the highest BBC salaries are nowhere in the region of the highest in commercial broadcasting.

Are people aware of that? Lots of comments I read on this would seem to indicate otherwise. And Corbyn's position precisely seems unaware of that.

[wigginhall]

It does make you wonder if Corbyn is a bit naive about stuff like this.   But then again, his naivete can be seen as refreshing, compared with machinations of other politicians.   It's certainly clever populist stuff to attack the BBC, as Rhiannon said, welcome to the world of Murdoch.   Ironic that BBC salaries are probably on the low side.   

[Nearly Sane]

Not sure of the idea of Len Goodman or GaryLineker as public service worker.

Any argument along those lines pales in the light of what Hammond has done. In many respects Hammond is the last hoorah of a popular Toryism which pits private worker against public in some perverse bumfight and at this stage in the game one wonders how much mileage that has.

I agree with your first sentence, and that is what I have been arguing,  pity that Corbyn doesn't. And that gives support to Hammond which is foolish.

[Udayana]

The thing is, it is legitimate to criticise the BBC for its gender pay gap. It's appallingly bad.

Gender pay gap reporting is now obligatory. Legislation could/should be extended to include more detail and cover ethnicity, disability and so on. 

[Rhiannon]

I think that identifying the Beeb as 'public sector' makes abolishing the license fee easier. People are used to paying for subscription channels now and this perception of BBC 'fat cats'' milking the hard-pushed workers is going to make the arguing all the easier. The comparison between different areas of the 'public sector' that John Humphreys has made, for example, enables a perception that taking the BBC out of public ownership frees up more cash for nurses and firefighters - see Brexit. Yet the BBC does itself no favours here and its failure to put its own house in order has made it vulnerable.

[wigginhall]

I think that identifying the Beeb as 'public sector' makes abolishing the license fee easier. People are used to paying for subscription channels now and this perception of BBC 'fat cats'' milking the hard-pushed workers is going to make the arguing all the easier. The comparison between different areas of the 'public sector' that John Humphreys has made, for example, enables a perception that taking the BBC out of public ownership frees up more cash for nurses and firefighters - see Brexit. Yet the BBC does itself no favours here and its failure to put its own house in order has made it vulnerable.

It is a clever ploy by the Tories, and it will probably gain some populist points, e.g. why should Lineker take our money?   The fact that Ant and Dec get a lot more doesn't count, because it's not our money.   (Eh?) 

I think it was May who insisted that salaries above £150, 000 should be listed, whereas Cameron had £450, 000.    And she can beat the gender gap drum.   

[Nearly Sane]

As an aside, one of the people listed is an 'identity architect', is this something about branding?

[wigginhall]

I wonder how much Mr May earns?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It does make you wonder if Corbyn is a bit naive about stuff like this.   But then again, his naivete can be seen as refreshing, compared with machinations of other politicians.   It's certainly clever populist stuff to attack the BBC, as Rhiannon said, welcome to the world of Murdoch.   Ironic that BBC salaries are probably on the low side.

Pay and its links with celebrity were a blind spot for Blair who never rid himself of the fear of what the Mail etc would think.Of course he should have known that he and his heirs were never going to get any respect in fact in April 2017 patience among the establishment had run out and Dacre, May etc decided that at last the axe had to fall in order to usher in the thousand year reich.Whereas Miliband had been the turkey and had read the script. Corbyn didn't. Rather than sitting down to a slap up dinner the Tories are chasing round the farm yard bleeding profusely and with fingers missing. Nativity no instead of trying to be the sweetest voice in the choir Corbyn has changed the tune.

Your post testifies to a kind of parallel existence.If Corbyn can reconnect us with having some control in what we pay for or sacrifice ourselves for so much the better.

[wigginhall]

Well, Corbyn didn't play the game correctly.   He was supposed to be the next victim for the Tory guillotine, eccentric nutter on his allotment, with mad Marxist ideas, crushed in an election, and Labour reduced to rubble.   

Quite fascinating that he seemed to break out of this mould, and energized some voters.   

But the Tories will set many traps for him in the next few months, hoping to reveal him as, well, a Marxist nutter.   So on BBC pay, he is a bit naive.   

I've no idea how this will  work out.   Predictions are for fools today.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well, Corbyn didn't play the game correctly.   He was supposed to be the next victim for the Tory guillotine, eccentric nutter on his allotment, with mad Marxist ideas, crushed in an election, and Labour reduced to rubble.   

Quite fascinating that he seemed to break out of this mould, and energized some voters.   

But the Tories will set many traps for him in the next few months, hoping to reveal him as, well, a Marxist nutter.   So on BBC pay, he is a bit naive.   

I've no idea how this will  work out.   Predictions are for fools today.

I think they've tried the Marxist nutter and are now into smooth second hand car salesman mode.
The Tory vehicle is now tuned up with a new listening mode. This of course provides the voter with more control but is in fact the first thing to go when out on the road leaving the voter thinking is it worth the hassle of fixing.

[ProfessorDavey]

The fact that Ant and Dec get a lot more doesn't count, because it's not our money.   (Eh?)

Except of course it is 'our money' just taken from us via a different route - in that case the products we buy from companies that pay for advertising.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think that identifying the Beeb as 'public sector' makes abolishing the license fee easier. People are used to paying for subscription channels now and this perception of BBC 'fat cats'' milking the hard-pushed workers is going to make the arguing all the easier. The comparison between different areas of the 'public sector' that John Humphreys has made, for example, enables a perception that taking the BBC out of public ownership frees up more cash for nurses and firefighters - see Brexit. Yet the BBC does itself no favours here and its failure to put its own house in order has made it vulnerable.

Not taking criticism seriously would be one failure.
The replacement of journalism with opinion.
Self reference and congratulation.
Celebrity
Neglect of local and regional broadcasting.
Neglect of the European dimension.
Laurel resting.
Division of production roles along class lines Entertainment sport lower middle and working class. News and current affairs independently educated.

[Harrowby Hall]

Not taking criticism seriously would be one failure.
The replacement of journalism with opinion.
Self reference and congratulation.
Celebrity
Neglect of local and regional broadcasting.
Neglect of the European dimension.
Laurel resting.
Division of production roles along class lines Entertainment sport lower middle and working class. News and current affairs independently educated.

Do you write this tripe yourself, Vlad, or does someone else do it for you?