Radiohead in Israel

[Rhiannon]

Good for them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40666707

[Shaker]

Quite.

[Enki]

Agreed.

[Shaker]

Normally I like and for the most part agree with Ken Loach - he's made some excellent films and documentaries - but there's an element in left-wing politics which has not merely latched onto the Palestinian cause as a virtue signalling crusade but as a front for attitudes which can only be called anti-Semitic. It's not a large problem in the Labour Party - it certainly used to be far worse in the Greens - but it's undeniably there. Enemy of my enemy is my friend thinking at its stupidest, unfortunately, and something that people noted for high intelligence in other areas (e.g. Stephen Hawking) can fall prey to.

[Nearly Sane]

I would agree but I see it as a large issue for Labour than Shaker. It's fairly dominant amongst the leading members of the cabinet and the BDS is supported by them.

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Normally I like and for the most part agree with Ken Loach - he's made some excellent films and documentaries - but there's an element in left-wing politics which has not merely latched onto the Palestinian cause as a virtue signalling crusade but as a front for attitudes which can only be called anti-Semitic. It's not a large problem in the Labour Party - it certainly used to be far worse in the Greens - but it's undeniably there. Enemy of my enemy is my friend thinking at its stupidest, unfortunately, and something that people noted for high intelligence in other areas (e.g. Stephen Hawking) can fall prey to.

Would you all be saying the same thirty years ago if they'd performed in apartheid South Africa?

[Shaker]

Would you all be saying the same thirty years ago if they'd performed in apartheid South Africa?

No.

But that's because of apartheid.

In South Africa.

As I recall many artists did play in SA - Queen at Sun City, for instance.

[Enki]

Would you all be saying the same thirty years ago if they'd performed in apartheid South Africa?

Yes, I supported the involvement of Paul Simon in SA when there was supposed to be a cultural boycott because of Apartheid. I still play the CD 'Gracelands'  when driving sometimes.

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No.

But that's because of apartheid.

In South Africa.

As I recall many artists did play in SA - Queen at Sun City, for instance.

And Israel practices de facto apartheid. As well as that, just look at the rules they have for those moving there and who can marry who, all based on race. If any country in Europe did the same they would be accused of neo-nazism.

[Shaker]

And Israel practices de facto apartheid. As well as that, just look at the rules they have for those moving there and who can marry who, all based on race. If any country in Europe did the same they would be accused of neo-nazism.

Balls, bilge and bullshit.

And I'm not going to be lectured on politics by one of the forum's resident beardy-weirdy-rump-osculating anti-Semites and homophobes.

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Balls, bilge and bullshit.

And I'm not going to be lectured on politics by one of the forum's resident beardy-weirdy-rump-osculating anti-Semites and homophobes.

Bullshit? Ir's easy to look up, pal. Of course, you could just cobtinue to bury your head in the sand.

http://www.newobserveronline.com/2017/06/israel-moves-to-tighten-its-racial.html?m=1

[Shaker]

Bullshit? Ir's easy to look up, pal. Of course, you could just cobtinue to bury your head in the sand.

http://www.newobserveronline.com/2017/06/israel-moves-to-tighten-its-racial.html?m=1

My ISP's settings have blocked your link on the grounds of its being a hate site. Further investigation reveals:

The New Observer has extreme right wing bias. Publishes stories that are simply not true (fake news) and has very questionable content regarding African Americans. (11/7/2016) Updated (6/20/2017)

Right up your usual street, evidently. Still, by your own admission earlier today you like fake news sources full of tits, don't you?

[Enki]

And Israel practices de facto apartheid. As well as that, just look at the rules they have for those moving there and who can marry who, all based on race. If any country in Europe did the same they would be accused of neo-nazism.

Actually the rules for marriage in Israel are that only two people of the same religion(not race) can be married under the auspices of the religion to which they both belong. I would personally like that changed, but in no way is it supporting a South African like apartheid situation, it's to do with interfaith not interrace.

You can criticise Israel and its politics as much as you like, but I think that to liken its laws to an SA apartheid situation is rather unfair. There are many aspects of Israeli law and custom which just don't fit this way of looking at things.

Apart from saying that, my less restrained thoughts would heartily support Shaker's comments in post 9.

[Shaker]

Actually the rules for marriage in Israel are that only two people of the same religion(not race) can be married under the auspices of the religion to which they both belong. I would personally like that changed, but in no way is it supporting a South African like apartheid situation, it's to do with interfaith not interrace.

Anyone of any race or creed can become a naturalized citizen, moreover, typically by living there for three out of five years.

[...]to liken its laws to an SA apartheid situation is rather unfair. There are many aspects of Israeli law and custom which just don't fit this way of looking at things.

Such as the fact that Israeli Jews and Palestinians (who are Christian as well as Muslim) aren't segregated and mix and mingle freely in daily life - certainly in the cities and large towns.

Apart from saying that, my less restrained thoughts would heartily support Shaker's comments in post 9.

"I'm only saying what you're thinking" is just one of several middle names 

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Continue to bury your head in the sand, son. Gaza and the West Bank are ghettos reminicent of those in 1930's Germany.

[Shaker]

Continue to bury your head in the sand, son. Gaza and the West Bank are ghettos reminicent of those in 1930's Germany.

Wouldn't have thought you'd see 1930s German ghettos as that much of a problem?

http://tinyurl.com/y8jrb95g

[SteveH]

Israel is an appalling state, comparable with South Africa in the worst days of apartheid. Shame on Radiohead.

[Shaker]

Israel is an appalling state, comparable with South Africa in the worst days of apartheid. Shame on Radiohead.

Comparable how specifically?

[SteveH]

Comparable how specifically?

Pass laws, second-class services for Palestinians, theft of Palestinian land, refugees, illegal settlements in illegally-occupied territory, and more.

[floo]

Pass laws, second-class services for Palestinians, theft of Palestinian land, refugees, illegal settlements in illegally-occupied territory, and more.

Agreed.

[Shaker]

Pass laws, second-class services for Palestinians, theft of Palestinian land, refugees, illegal settlements in illegally-occupied territory, and more.

You do know that the nearest thing Israel has to a constitution outlines equal citizenship for all regardless of race, religion, sex or anything else?

I am a proud Israeli – along with many other non-Jewish Israelis such as Druze, Bahai, Bedouin, Christians and Muslims, who live in one of the most culturally diversified societies and the only true democracy in the Middle East. Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let us deal honestly. By any yardstick you choose – educational opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of speech and assembly, legislative representation – Israel's minorities fare far better than any other country in the Middle East.

That's from Ishmael Khaldi, a Bedouin who serves as a senior diplomat in Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is from Khaled Abu Toameh, the journalist and film maker

Israel is a wonderful place to live and we are happy to be there. Israel is a free and open country. If I were given the choice, I would rather live in Israel as a second class citizen than as a first class citizen in Cairo, Gaza, Amman or Ramallah.

Since they live and work there, I'm inclined to believe them.

[SteveH]

Ypu do know that the nearest thing Israel has to a constitution outlines equal citizenship for all regardless of race, religion, sex or anything else?

So did the Soviet Union. Actions speak louder than words.

That's from Ishmael Khaldi, a Bedouin who serves as a senior diplomat in Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is from Khaled Abu Toameh, the journalist and film maker

Since they live and work there, I'm inclined to believe them.

There were also black South Africans who praised Apartheid South Africa, no doubt in return for privileged treatment.

[Shaker]

Ah riiiight. So these Israeli Arabs are in your view just Uncle Toms, is that what you're saying?

Nothing about the fact - which I think nobody can seriously deny - that as Khaldi said, by any metric anyone would want to be in Israel rather than any other part of the Middle East?

[Rhiannon]

I'm assuming that an Arab woman is Israel can he photographed in a vaguely short skirt without then being at risk of state flogging?

Take away music from the people of Israel - all people- and you take away one of the most powerful things that can bring consolation, meaning and even the impetus to affect change. Starving people of culture from the wider world seems to guarantee a poverty of vision, an insularity. Music is about breaking down walls and prejudice, in part. It's stupid of anyone to try and stand in the way of those who do it best.

[Enki]

Israel is an appalling state, comparable with South Africa in the worst days of apartheid. Shame on Radiohead.

You can criticise the state of Israel as much as you want. That's entirely up to you. However Radiohead were there to play music to anyone who came to their concert. I actually like Thom Yorke's reply to Ken Loach. As far as them feeling shame, that's one of your opinions that I don't share.