You will burn in hell

[floo]

deleted

[trippymonkey]

Absolutely amazing what utter crap people will believe.

Fear has such a big role to play in certain religions, it seems.

Really !!! Can't God DO any better !?!?!?

[ad_orientem]

Certainly I believe in hell. I don't cherish the idea of anyone being there. Who knows, I might even end up there. I think most Christians who hold to a traditional view of hell would like to be universalists at heart but given what we know from the scriptures etc we know that it cannot be so.

[Nearly Sane]

Certainly I believe in hell. I don't cherish the idea of anyone being there. Who knows, I might even end up there. I think most Christians who hold to a traditional view of hell would like to be universalists at heart but given what we know from the scriptures etc we know that it cannot be so.

Why would you like to be a universalist? Why is your god so at odds with what you want to be?

[ad_orientem]

Why would you like to be a universalist? Why is your god so at odds with what you want to be?

To the first question, because I would like to think that all might be able to enjoy paradise. The scriptures also tell us that God desires that all be saved. However we also know that many reject God and therefore through their own choice will be excluded from heaven.

[Nearly Sane]

To the first question, because I would like to think that all might be able to enjoy paradise. The scriptures also tell us that God desires that all be saved. However we also know that many reject God and therefore through their own choice will be excluded from heaven.

So you and your god think everyone being saved would be a good thing. And in this case your god is omnipotent and omniscient and yet has created a circumstance that it doesn't want since being an omnipotent omniscient god, this is the only possible universe. Given that is contradictory to what you say it wants, it means your beliefs are logically inconsistent.

[ad_orientem]

So you and your god think everyone being saved would be a good thing. And in this case your god is omnipotent and omniscient and yet has created a circumstance that it doesn't want since being an omnipotent omniscient god, this is the only possible universe. Given that is contradictory to what you say it wants, it means your beliefs are logically inconsistent.

Not at all. We have freewill. God neither wants nor made us automatons.

[Nearly Sane]

Not at all. We have freewill. God neither wants nor made us automatons.

Doesn't matter if god is the omnis. This must by definition be the best possible world. Or do you think your god choose to create a worse world than it could?

[ad_orientem]

Doesn't matter if god is the omnis. This must by definition be the best possible world. Or do you think your god choose to create a worse world than it could?

When God created the world he said that it was very good. Freewill means that we are able to reject God. Neither does it mean anything to love God if we do not choose freely. Anything else and you don't have freewill, unless you're willing to go through logical somersaults.

[Nearly Sane]

When God created the world he said that it was very good. Freewill means that we are able to reject God. Neither does it mean anything to love God if we do not choose freely. Anything else and you don't have freewill, unless you're willing to go through logical somersaults.

That isn't an answer to the question. Could your god create a worse world?

[ad_orientem]

That isn't an answer to the question. Could your god create a worse world?

Yes.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes.

Surely that would be against his nature? Or did he choose this creation on the toss of coin?

[ad_orientem]

Surely that would be against his nature? Or did he choose this creation on the toss of coin?

Eh?

[Nearly Sane]

Eh?

How did an omniscient, omnipotent and presumably omnibenevolent choose what its creation would be like? Is this creation not in line with the essential nature of your god?

[ad_orientem]

How did an omniscient, omnipotent and presumably omnibenevolent choose what its creation would be like? Is this creation not in line with the essential nature of your god?

Everything was made according according to his will.

[Nearly Sane]

Everything was made according according to his will.

So, given it is his will, nothing could be any different?

[ad_orientem]

So, given it is his will, nothing could be any different?

Things will be different, at least the other side of the Parousia. Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Why he chose to do it this way, that I cannot answer nor will I attempt to.

[Nearly Sane]

Things will be different, at least the other side of the Parousia. Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Why he chose to do it this way, that I cannot answer nor will I attempt to.

Mmm I note the switch in uses of different. Again could this world be any different to be consistent with your god's nature?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Ad,

However we also know that many reject God and therefore through their own choice will be excluded from heaven.

Does it not seem to you peculiarly narcissistic and arbitrary of this God of yours to make the selection criterion whether or not people “reject” him rather than, say, find a cure for cancer, foster needy children, or do similar good works that benefit “His” special creation?

What kind of moral monster would condemn someone to an eternity (an eternity mind you) of cloven-footed types with toasting forks just because they didn’t show “Him” sufficient obeisance while on the mortal coil? 

[ad_orientem]

Mmm I note the switch in uses of different. Again could this world be any different to be consistent with your god's nature?

If we say that God is almighty then the answer has to yes.

[floo]

Ad,

Does it not seem to you peculiarly narcissistic and arbitrary of this God of yours to make the selection criterion whether or not people “reject” him rather than, say, find a cure for cancer, foster needy children, or do similar good works that benefit “His” special creation?

What kind of moral monster would condemn someone to an eternity (an eternity mind you) of cloven-footed types with toasting forks just because they didn’t show “Him” sufficient obeisance while on the mortal coil?

Only a psycho would do that.

[Nearly Sane]

If we say that God is almighty then the answer has to yes.

So your god could act against its nature?

[ad_orientem]

So your god could act against its nature?

I never said that.

[Nearly Sane]

I never said that.

I didn't say you had. That's why I used a question mark. Can your god act in any way that isn't exactly in line with its nature?

[ad_orientem]

I didn't say you had. That's why I used a question mark. Can your god act in any way that isn't exactly in line with its nature?

I don't really know. I'm inclined to say no but then that would put limitations on his being almighty.