Kevin Myers

[Nearly Sane]

Good article on Kevin Myers



http://littleatoms.com/blog/padraig-reidy/kevin-myers-and-pub-bore-journalism

[floo]

The comment made by Myers was unpleasant to say the least!

[Rhiannon]

I think the problem is that club room bores like Myers appear so ridiculous as to hardly be worth getting het up about. Then you realise the enthusiasm with which their views are met in some quarters and they stop being so pathetic.

[Aruntraveller]

I think the problem is that club room bores like Myers appear so ridiculous as to hardly be worth getting het up about. Then you realise the enthusiasm with which their views are met in some quarters and they stop being so pathetic.

That could equally apply to Nigel Farage - anyhow I digress.

It is striking how some prejudices refuse to die. I don't quite understand it. In my recent meanderings on t'internet looking at the marking of the 50th anniversary of the passing of the 67 Sexual Offences Act I was struck afresh at how many bigoted people are still out there.

As the saying has it 'Haters gonna hate'.

We can only hope that as time passes so will these prejudices, but it is a grindingly slow process. Ho-hum.

[Rhiannon]

That could equally apply to Nigel Farage - anyhow I digress.

It is striking how some prejudices refuse to die. I don't quite understand it. In my recent meanderings on t'internet looking at the marking of the 50th anniversary of the passing of the 67 Sexual Offences Act I was struck afresh at how many bigoted people are still out there.

As the saying has it 'Haters gonna hate'.

We can only hope that as time passes so will these prejudices, but it is a grindingly slow process. Ho-hum.

Oh yes. And Hopkins. There a few of them.

I know about haters hating on the internet. I've seen the comments on Yahoo News.

[Shaker]

It is striking how some prejudices refuse to die. I don't quite understand it. In my recent meanderings on t'internet looking at the marking of the 50th anniversary of the passing of the 67 Sexual Offences Act I was struck afresh at how many bigoted people are still out there.

As the saying has it 'Haters gonna hate'.

We can only hope that as time passes so will these prejudices, but it is a grindingly slow process. Ho-hum.

I don't know but suspect that at best mistrust and at worst fear of difference, of the other, is an inherent part of the human animal. To that extent it doesn't seem feasible that it can ever be eradicated.

On the other hand, I've been following the umpteen programmes across several channels marking the 50th anniversary of the Sexual Offences Act and one of several notable things that struck me is that for people of my age and younger sexuality simply isn't an issue, to the extent that there are some people in the public eye who are gay but not regarded as such - not because it's hidden as used to be the case but because there's no longer a perceived need to mention the fact. It's not a consideration, no longer a marker of identity that needs to have attention drawn to it.

If I lived in London I would, I hope, be aware that my opinion might well be formed by a very small and wholly unrepresentative sample of a metropolitan population and not applicable outside of that milieu; but I don't - very far from it; I live in rural Leicestershire.

I think it was back in the 1970s that an American gay rights activist said (of the gay rights movement, obviously) that time and the younger generation were on their side. I think that that's true of any and every movement that enlarges the sphere of human freedom. This isn't like Marx's idea of inevitable historical progress; it's not naive enough to think that there can't be reversals and setbacks of the kind we're seeing in the US right now. Nevertheless, I think there's more than enough evidence to substantiate the man's claim.

[Rhiannon]

I can tell you how my views about gay people and same sex relationships formed. I grew up in the era of John Inman and when people who came out still 'confessed' it. Then in my teens in the 80s Bronski Beat came along, and Just Seventeen, the teen mag that was astonishingly left leaning for the mainstream, and that educated me about everything from sex to Amnesty international to feminism. It ran a short fiction story about a girl whose male best friend came out to her and that was a real light bulb moment for me. Stood me in good stead when my own best friend did the same a few months later.

[Shaker]

I can tell you how my views about gay people and same sex relationships formed. I grew up in the era of John Inman and when people who came out still 'confessed' it.

Yup, me too. Larry Grayson, Duncan Norvelle et. al.

Then in my teens in the 80s Bronski Beat came along, and Just Seventeen, the teen mag that was astonishingly left leaning for the mainstream, and that educated me about everything from sex to Amnesty international to feminism. It ran a short fiction story about a girl whose male best friend came out to her and that was a real light bulb moment for me. Stood me in good stead when my own best friend did the same a few months later.

I missed out on the magazines  But yes, I think the musical scene of the time did so much - Bronski Beat, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Erasure and so forth.

With hindsight you could be unkind and say that closeted gay stars like the Pet Shop Boys and George Michael let the side down somewhat, but such were the times and it's not my place to criticise.

Thinking back to it now though I knew of no openly gay students at my school - and given that it was a big one with about 700-odd students statistically there would have been quite a few.

[Aruntraveller]

Not sure PSB were ever closeted. If they were it was only fleetingly.

As to George Michael, much like Freddie Mercury it was all there hiding in plain sight in the lyrics.

I was the only gay person I knew at school - although in those days, late 60's early 70's it's not altogether surprising that people would be discreet.

Anyhoo we have meandered from the original topic somewhat, my fault I fear. Apologies.

[Shaker]

It's been interesting though 

[Rhiannon]

And not entirely off topic. The kids can split it if they want to as this is a good discussion and one I don't recall having before.

In my shitty London comp my friend's coming out was met with acceptance, although some of it was slightly patronising. The one bloke who made a homophobic comment was told very firmly not to. That, I think, reflects the times quite accurately. No idea why we appear to have gone backwards in some ways.

[Shaker]

No idea why we appear to have gone backwards in some ways.

I suspect that if there's such a thing as a critical mass for tolerance, there's a critical mass for its opposite. In the UK it was a Tory government which introduced marriage equality, and just this past week we've had a Tory Prime Minister apologising for the mistakes of the past. Simultaneously, over in America we've seen a man who, when trying to become president, promised to do everything in his power to protect LGBT rights say, now that he is president, that transsexuals can't serve in the forces in any capacity. That kind of rhetoric emboldens people who may think the same but keep quiet about it to pipe up and agree openly. It's like a tide - people are pulled along by it. Marx was right about plenty but wrong about progress - it isn't inevitable. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance and all that.

[Aruntraveller]

Originally I'm from Mansfield - for those of you who don't know it - it used to be a mining town surrounded by numerous colliery villages. Not the kind of place you would necessarily find acceptance. It would be a lie to say I didn't face some hostility -but not a great deal, and at school very little. I came out (I don't think that term was in common usage then) in the choir (yes I was in the choir - fuck knows how, I can hold a tune about as well as Hilda Ogden can) a stupid spat with a friend, when he said as an insult and not meaning it, that I was a 'stinking queer' - the rest of the choir went quiet and I turned to look at him and in my best camp voice ( in my mind a cross between Charles Hawtrey and Kenneth Williams) I announced 'queer I maybe, stink, never!'

Laughter all round and no real problems....except getting called to see the headmaster - who mumbled about not having this sort of thing discussed - but then went on to tell me that the music teacher was impressed by my quick wittedness in the situation. Strange what you remember.

[Rhiannon]

Just realised that autocorrect turned mods into kids. Was going to correct it but I think I'll leave it.