Charlie Gard and God

[Owlswing]

Christians - all of you on this forum -

Would you now like to take this as an opportunity to deliver your opinions and judgemernt upon the decision of your God to put Charlie Gard through almost a year of totally unnecessary suffering ending in his death by a disease that is incurable.

At the same time would you please give justification for your God putting Charie's parents through Hell on Earth!

My two-penneth - you've already had it quite a few times and this case doesn't change it, it reinforces it - he is a sadistic vindictive bastard!

P S - YES - I'm fucking angry! Fucking angry to a level beyond any words that exist in my limited vocabulary to describe.

[Aruntraveller]

Owlswing calm down you'll do yourself a mischief.

You know you won't get an answer that makes any sense, so why ask.

They'll probably tell you its down to those secular pagan antitheists who are subverting the work of god because the devil has taken control of our willpower.

There I've saved both Sass and Vlad the bother of posting. You are both very welcome. Please don't mention it.

[Sriram]

The child probably did not suffer as much as we tend to think he did.   Also, he is now probably free and more enlightened since after the experience.  He is likely to have a 'better' reincarnation next time with more opportunities to learn and develop.

My two pence worth!

[SusanDoris]

The child probably did not suffer as much as we tend to think he did.   Also, he is now probably free and more enlightened since after the experience.  He is likely to have a 'better' reincarnation next time with more opportunities to learn and develop.

My two pence worth!

Oh dear, that really is one of your silliest posts.

[Robbie]

Not really, it's just an opinion. Hindus believe in afterlife and reincarnation so from his perspective what sririam says is correct.

Owlswing do you get angry every time someone is ill or dies? If so you must epend a helluva time angry. Sickness death and grief are just parts of life.

It's never occurred to me to blame God if someone I love is ill, pointless. It's called being human.

The worst thing about Charlie Gard's life to me is how it was prolonged artificially, how his parents were given false hope and the antagonism it whipped up. Had it not been for those factors he would have been given TLC & passed away gently a while ago.

I'd like to think something good will come out of the little lad's short life but can't see it right now, certainly lessons can be learned from the controversy. I feel sorry for Charlie's parents who seem to have been manipulated but don't want to hear more publicity; & hope they can grieve privately. Doubt that will happen.

[Shaker]

Oh dear, that really is one of your silliest posts.

... and that's in the face of terrific competition.

[SusanDoris]

... and that's in the face of terrific competition.

That really made me laugh out loud! thank you!

[Shaker]

Welcome 

[Enki]

From Post 4 by Robinson:

It's never occurred to me to blame God if someone I love is ill, pointless. It's called being human.

It's never occurred to me to blame God if someone is ill, as I don't believe in any god. It's pointless. Far better to be compassionate and try to help the person who is ill, and those whose lives are affected by that illness, if possible and practical. It's called being human.

[trippymonkey]

As per Sriram's post - I think this is precisely why the idea of reincarnation etc came about as there seems to be not much else to explain it away.

A merciful god ... mmmmmm

[wigginhall]

I think historically, Christians would have seen it as divine providence.  I've read old diaries, e.g. 18th century, where people saw the death of a child as providence, and a warning from God.

But this has become a crackpot idea today - e.g. that weather disasters are punishment from God.  But surely this was once commonplace?

It shows how religious ideas adapt to current ideas, since we understand weather in scientific terms.     

[floo]

As I have said many times, god gets praised when things go well for devout believers, but never blamed when people suffer terrible torment!

[Rhiannon]

The other one I've come across is the idea that God calls his angels home early. A variant being 'they were too good to live'.

Hope I haven't posted that too close to dinner time, people.

[Rhiannon]

I don't see how a Christian can not blame God in some way when prayers to ease suffering go unanswered, or at least feel a good deal of confusion.

[wigginhall]

I don't see how a Christian can not blame God in some way when prayers to ease suffering go unanswered, or at least feel a good deal of confusion.

Yes, I bet they do, but keep it under wraps.  As floo said, God gets praised for a cure, but not blamed for a non-cure.   If Charlie had recovered, they would have been singing God's praises, but this is just nature taking its course.   It's not meant to be logical.

[Shaker]

I don't see how a Christian can not blame God in some way when prayers to ease suffering go unanswered, or at least feel a good deal of confusion.

Does the unsettling suspicion of confirmation bias - counting the 'hits' and quietly ignoring the misses - really never break through, if only a little bit?

[wigginhall]

Does the unsettling suspicion of confirmation bias - counting the 'hits' and quietly ignoring the misses - really never break through, if only a little bit?

I think the idea of providence kept it watertight, because it meant that your child's death was caused by God, and in fact, was a warning.  But as that was given up, including natural disasters being also a warning from God, the cracks began to show.   It would be interesting to look at it historically, maybe somebody has done it.

[wigginhall]

"As applied to God, Providence is God Himself considered in that act by which in His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized. That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God. "    (my emphasis).

New Advent encyclopedia of Catholic theology. 

[ippy]

Oh dear, that really is one of your silliest posts.

Seconded.

ippy

[Owlswing]

The child probably did not suffer as much as we tend to think he did.   Also, he is now probably free and more enlightened since after the experience.  He is likely to have a 'better' reincarnation next time with more opportunities to learn and develop.


My two pence worth!

The article stated, if I remember it right, that they could not rule out Charlie being able to feel pain even though the damage wrought by the disease prevented him from any visible reaction to it.

The true meaning of suffering in silence!

I am Pagan and I too believe in the cycle - Birth, Life, Death and Rebirth.

I believe that Charlie now rests in the Summerlands where he will meet others who will help him to understand what happened to him, what they will not be doing is givinh him some spurious load of old bollocks about why it happened to him as, in my considered opinion no-one knows the answer to that. We know how he got the disease, but no-one knows why.

If the Christian God, who, so we are told, is the author of everything that happens and knows everything about everything, does know the answer you can bet your last farthing he ain't going to be telling anyone anytime soon!
 

[Owlswing]

Owlswing do you get angry every time someone is ill or dies? If so you must epend a helluva time angry. Sickness death and grief are just parts of life.

No, I do not get this angry every time someone is ill or dies.

It is this particular case that riles me. A tiny baby, an innocent in every sense of the word that I am aware of is born with a disease that is going to kill him in less than a year.

According to the Christian church and its adherents life is a gift from a loving merciful omnipotent God. In what way was he merciful in putting the child through a such a poinytess existence if he had determined that the child was going to die - for his personal entertainment watching his parents fighting what they must have realised early on was a futile battle to save him?

Watching doctors and nurses using all the skills that the Christian Godd has allowed them to aquire bujt withholding from said doctors and nurses the means to cure the child - having already denied scientist the knowledge to create a cure?   

Guess what I am most angry about?

The silence from those adherents on this Forum - not even the usual load of patent rubbish trying to defend the bastard they call God!

It has never occurred to me to blame God if someone I love is ill, pointless. It's called being human.

But God created everything including the illness your loved one is suffering, and he sits back and lets them suffer - that is not being either human or humane.

The worst thing about Charlie Gard's life to me is how it was prolonged artificially, how his parents were given false hope and the antagonism it whipped up. Had it not been for those factors he would have been given TLC & passed away gently a while ago.

NO! Trying to help the child to the absolute limits of their, everyone involved, parents doctors etc, ability to find a way of helping the boy THAT IS BEING HUMAN!

[Sriram]

The article stated, if I remember it right, that they could not rule out Charlie being able to feel pain even though the damage wrought by the disease prevented him from any visible reaction to it.

The true meaning of suffering in silence!

I am Pagan and I too believe in the cycle - Birth, Life, Death and Rebirth.

I believe that Charlie now rests in the Summerlands where he will meet others who will help him to understand what happened to him, what they will not be doing is givinh him some spurious load of old bollocks about why it happened to him as, in my considered opinion no-one knows the answer to that. We know how he got the disease, but no-one knows why.

If the Christian God, who, so we are told, is the author of everything that happens and knows everything about everything, does know the answer you can bet your last farthing he ain't going to be telling anyone anytime soon!
 

I understand where you are coming from. But it is always better to take a fixed philosophical position in all matters instead of suddenly getting upset and flogging some specific mythological story.  That was my point.

[Owlswing]

I understand where you are coming from. But it is always better to take a fixed philosophical position in all matters instead of suddenly getting upset and flogging some specific mythological story.  That was my point.

It depends upon what you consider to be 'suddenly'.

I have been angry about Charlie's situation since it first became public knowledge.

[Nearly Sane]

It depends upon what you consider to be 'suddenly'.

I have been angry about Charlie's situation since it first became public knowledge.

And,if I could comment, your attitude seems consistent with your 'philosophy'.

[floo]

I hope the Charlie Gard situation has not compromised the care of other children being treated at GOSH. I feel so sorry for the staff who must have been under the most awful strain since the media got involved in the case.