Pigs as organ donors

[Sriram]

HI everyone,

Here is an article about GM pigs likely to be bred for organ transplant into humans.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40886600

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The most genetically modified animals in existence have been created to help end a shortage of organs for transplant, say US researchers.

The scientists successfully rid 37 pigs of viruses hiding in their DNA, overcoming one of the big barriers to transplanting pig organs to people.

The team at eGenesis admits preventing pig organs from being rejected by the human body remains a huge challenge

But experts said it was a promising and exciting first step.

"We know we have an audacious vision of a world with no shortage of organs, that is very challenging, but that is also our motivation to remove mountains."

Pigs are particularly promising for xenotransplantation as their organs are a similar size to humans', and the animals can be bred in large numbers.

But removing the viruses is only half the challenge, even organs donated from other people can cause a strong immune reaction that leads to the transplant being rejected.

The US team is investigating further genetic modifications to make pig organs more acceptable to the human immune system.

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We are becoming pigs quite literally, it seems!  Just when people world over are considering vegetarianism as a viable option because of animal rights considerations.....!

Why do we fear death so much that we think it is necessary to go to such lengths to extend our lives?   And how long can we extend our lives and with what quality? 

Any views?

Sriram

[Sebastian Toe]

Ditch all medicine and let nature take its course.
What do you think?

[floo]

HI everyone,

Here is an article about GM pigs likely to be bred for organ transplant into humans.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40886600

**********

The most genetically modified animals in existence have been created to help end a shortage of organs for transplant, say US researchers.

The scientists successfully rid 37 pigs of viruses hiding in their DNA, overcoming one of the big barriers to transplanting pig organs to people.

The team at eGenesis admits preventing pig organs from being rejected by the human body remains a huge challenge

But experts said it was a promising and exciting first step.

"We know we have an audacious vision of a world with no shortage of organs, that is very challenging, but that is also our motivation to remove mountains."

Pigs are particularly promising for xenotransplantation as their organs are a similar size to humans', and the animals can be bred in large numbers.

But removing the viruses is only half the challenge, even organs donated from other people can cause a strong immune reaction that leads to the transplant being rejected.

The US team is investigating further genetic modifications to make pig organs more acceptable to the human immune system.

***********

We are becoming pigs quite literally, it seems!  Just when people world over are considering vegetarianism as a viable option because of animal rights considerations.....!

Why do we fear death so much that we think it is necessary to go to such lengths to extend our lives?   And how long can we extend our lives and with what quality? 

Any views?

Sriram

So are you saying if you needed a donor organ to save your life you wouldn't accept one?

[Shaker]

Another way to use and abuse animals and see them as commodities to be exploited. Just what we need.

The answer to the shortage of organs is so ridiculously simple that it beggars belief that more countries aren't adopting it - presumed consent or opt out. Wales has done it, so has Scotland and it's being floated in England. Sorted.

[floo]

Another way to use and abuse animals and see them as commodities to be exploited. Just what we need.

The answer to the shortage of organs is so ridiculously simple that it beggars belief that more countries aren't adopting it - presumed consent or opt out. Wales has done it, so has Scotland and it's being floated in England. Sorted.

I cannot see the difference between eating animals like pigs, and using their organs to save human lives.

[Shaker]

I cannot see the difference between eating animals like pigs, and using their organs to save human lives.

There is no difference. Both see pigs as things, objects which exist only to serve human desires, crops to be harvested and not the intelligent and affectionate sentient social creatures they actually are. I have no part in the former and would have no part in the latter.

[floo]

There is no difference. Both see pigs as things which exist only to serve human desires. I have no part in the former and would have no part in the latter.

I take it you are a vegetarian? I have no problem with eating animals or using their products, as long as they are killed in as humane a manner as is possible.

[Shaker]

I take it you are a vegetarian?

Closer to vegan, in fact.

I have no problem with eating animals or using their products

I do.

as long as they are killed in as humane a manner as is possible.

They're not.

[Sebastian Toe]

There is no difference. Both see pigs as things which exist only to serve human desires. I have no part in the former and would have no part in the latter.

Just as a thought experiment.
What do you think you might do if you woke up in hospital after having had a serious heart attack and found that you had been given a pig heart transplant?

[Nearly Sane]

I take it you are a vegetarian? I have no problem with eating animals or using their products, as long as they are killed in as humane a manner as is possible.

ah the old oxymoron of humane killing.

[Shaker]

ah the old oxymoron of humane killing.

It's not entirely an oxymoron in principle - it's perfectly possible to kill a human or non-human animal quickly and painlessly. It's just not done, for a variety of reasons.

[floo]

ah the old oxymoron of humane killing.

I said as humanely as possible, I don't suppose it will ever be painless.

[Shaker]

I said as humanely as possible, I don't suppose it will ever be painless.

... least of all when animals are routinely abused by slaughterhouse workers: http://tinyurl.com/ybt5xm2q

[Nearly Sane]

I said as humanely as possible, I don't suppose it will ever be painless.

Doesn't really matter. Killing to eat something"s flesh isn't humane.

[Nearly Sane]

It's not entirely an oxymoron in principle - it's perfectly possible to kill a human or non-human animal quickly and painlessly. It's just not done, for a variety of reasons.

in terms of killing something in order to eat it, it is an oxymoron

[floo]

... least of all when animals are routinely abused by slaughterhouse workers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40895049

Apparently CCTV cameras are going to be put in all UK slaughter houses to monitor how they are killed.

[BeRational]

I have no problem with killing animals for food or to save people's lives.

My morality puts my species first.

[Shaker]

I have no problem with killing animals for food or to save people's lives.

My morality puts my species first.

Which many - me included - see as no morality at all. Both are entirely unnecessary, so the suffering involved is purely gratuitous - not my idea of morality.

[Shaker]

Just as a thought experiment.
What do you think you might do if you woke up in hospital after having had a serious heart attack and found that you had been given a pig heart transplant?

That wouldn't happen - consent would have be sought beforehand.

[Nearly Sane]

That wouldn't happen - consent would have be sought beforehand.

It's a thought experiment. Let's say they thought they had consent mistakenly.

[Shaker]

It's a thought experiment. Let's say they thought they had consent mistakenly.

After a heart attack you don't just wake up in hospital with a freshly transplanted organ inside you.

For a thought experiment it shows a singular lack of anything resembling thought.

[floo]

After a heart attack you don't just wake up in hospital with a freshly transplanted organ inside you.

For a thought experiment it shows a singular lack of anything resembling thought.

BTW do you refuse to take all meds which have been tested on animals?

[Gordon]

Should the medical complications around rejection ever be resolved, to the extent that using organs from pigs for transplant purposes becomes a routine and successful option, it would seem inconsistent that those who currently accept that pigs are killed so that they can ingest bits of them as food would then baulk at using bits of pigs in other ways.

Once you commit to seeing pigs/animals as food then surely the underlying principle here is that you view them as being a resource.   

[floo]

Should the medical complications around rejection ever be resolved, to the extent that using organs from pigs for transplant purposes becomes a routine and successful option, it would seem inconsistent that those who currently accept that pigs are killed so that they can ingest bits of them as food would then baulk at using bits of pigs in other ways.

Once you commit to seeing pigs/animals as food then surely the underlying principle here is that you view them as being a resource.

Exactly.

[BeRational]

Which many - me included - see as no morality at all. Both are entirely unnecessary, so the suffering involved is purely gratuitous - not my idea of morality.

But you are just asserting your morality.

Why is mine wrong.

I care for people, and for animals, but I eat them as well, and have no problem with that.