Why alternative medicine kills

[Nearly Sane]

The dangers of snake oil


http://www.realclearscience.com/quick_and_clear_science/2017/08/14/alternative_medicine_kills_cancer_patients_study_finds.html

[Rhiannon]

I was talking to an acquaintance of mine about her episode of breast cancer, which she firmly believes was caused by HRT. Someone offered her a homeopathic route which she declined, saying that she wanted to live. She had chemo.

But I know that others who have felt that their cancers have been caused by chemical exposure of one kind it another - some genuinely are - have opted against more chemicals. It's not necessarily logical or fair or right.

As ever, I'm aware that there is a complementary aspect of treatment out there that should never ever take the place of medical treatment, but that can nevertheless help and support (and no, I don't mean homeopathy).  Just as an example, another acquaintance used a dietary plan during her chemo as she felt it gave her some kind of control at a time when everything else was totally uncertain. I get that.

[Nearly Sane]

I was talking to an acquaintance of mine about her episode of breast cancer, which she firmly believes was caused by HRT. Someone offered her a homeopathic route which she declined, saying that she wanted to live. She had chemo.

But I know that others who have felt that their cancers have been caused by chemical exposure of one kind it another - some genuinely are - have opted against more chemicals. It's not necessarily logical or fair or right.

As ever, I'm aware that there is a complementary aspect of treatment out there that should never ever take the place of medical treatment, but that can nevertheless help and support (and no, I don't mean homeopathy).  Just as an example, another acquaintance used a dietary plan during her chemo as she felt it gave her some kind of control at a time when everything else was totally uncertain. I get that.

Alternative medicine that works is, altogether now, medicine. Those pushing the snake oil aspect of this are happy to sneak in the move from 'complementary' (which is a dubious term itself) to 'alternative'. Oh and that cancer is cauzecy or treated by chemicals  so both are just the same, which yourpist isn't clear in dealing with, is the type of dangerous mistake that kills people. At the level we are dealing with it's all chemicals.

[Walter]

I was talking to an acquaintance of mine about her episode of breast cancer, which she firmly believes was caused by HRT. Someone offered her a homeopathic route which she declined, saying that she wanted to live. She had chemo.

But I know that others who have felt that their cancers have been caused by chemical exposure of one kind it another - some genuinely are - have opted against more chemicals. It's not necessarily logical or fair or right.

As ever, I'm aware that there is a complementary aspect of treatment out there that should never ever take the place of medical treatment, but that can nevertheless help and support (and no, I don't mean homeopathy).  Just as an example, another acquaintance used a dietary plan during her chemo as she felt it gave her some kind of control at a time when everything else was totally uncertain. I get that.

the whole planet and everything on it is made of chemicals, why is this so hard for people to understand?

[Sebastian Toe]

the whole planet and everything on it is made of chemicals, why is this so hard for people to understand?

What are chemicals made of? 

[Walter]

What are chemicals made of? 

elements!

[Walter]

elements!

then it's just turtles all the way down my friend 😳

[Sriram]

Something relevant to this topic from today's CNN news......

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/24/health/cinnamon-health-benefits/index.html

**********

Harvested from the inner bark of a tropical evergreen plant, cinnamon has been used in Ayurvedic medicine to treat respiratory and digestive problems for centuries.

But it's cinnamon's use as a medicinal agent that has scientists buzzing, trying to determine just how well its antioxidant capabilities might work to better our health.

"Medicine started as herbs and plants," said Lauri Wright, a spokeswoman for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. "So it almost comes full circle, as we're now going back and proving what some of these plant substances may do for health."

"I think the strongest evidence lies so far with diabetes and the promise of cinnamon and blood sugar control," Wright said, pointing to studies in test tubes and mice and even small studies in people showing that cinnamon helps with insulin sensitivity and glucose transport while decreasing inflammation.

"A lot of the studies have been in postmenopausal women and men of that age," said biochemist Amy Stockert, who studies cinnamon at Raabe College of Pharmacy at Ohio Northern University. "Some have found positive effects; other studies have not."

The antioxidant properties of cinnamon are also being studied for their impact on the formation of the plaques and tangles of Alzheimer's disease and other dementias. Cinnamaldehyde, a compound responsible for the spice's sweet smell, and epicatechin, a powerful antioxidant that's also in blueberries, red wine and chocolate, seem to offer some protection against the oxidative stress that damages tau, a key player in the development of dementia.

Using a computer model, biochemist Stockert found that cinnamon was as effective as resveratrol, an antioxidant in red wine known for anti-aging and disease-fighting properties, in activating SIRT-1 -- also known as the longevity gene because of its role in repairing DNA.

"In some cases, it did better than resveratrol," Stockert said. "We're talking anti-cancer, anti-aging, a very, very big deal if that is what is going on."

**********

[SweetPea]

Hi Sriram

Yes, the use of herbs, spices and vitamins all from natural sources is another reason, for me, to see signs of intelligent design. If you speak to a herbalist they will show you natural cures for many ailments. The other day I was reading about vitamin B!7 which can be found in certain grasses and is useful in combating cancer.

[Sriram]

Hi Sriram

Yes, the use of herbs, spices and vitamins all from natural sources is another reason, for me, to see signs of intelligent design. If you speak to a herbalist they will show you natural cures for many ailments. The other day I was reading about vitamin B!7 which can be found in certain grasses and is useful in combating cancer.

Hi SweetPea.

Most people seem to have no clue as to what 'Alternative medicine' is.

Medical systems like Ayurveda for example, were developed nearly 3000 years ago with herbal cures for most diseases. Even surgeries were done.  As the above article states, things will slowly move full circle such that more and more herbal cures will be identified based on ancient medical systems (using modern technology). 

Its after all, about evolution of hybrid systems through such interactions of different systems.  The usual slotting something as 'right' and something else as 'wrong' is clearly ridiculous. 

About ID....yes.  Wild animals for example seem to be able to identify and imbibe medicines during different illnesses, that are not a part of their normal diet.  They seem to have an innate ability to self medicate. So, there is obviously some kind of intelligence built into Nature. Check out Zoopharmacognosy.

Cheers.

Sriram



 

[Maeght]

Hi Sriram

Yes, the use of herbs, spices and vitamins all from natural sources is another reason, for me, to see signs of intelligent design. If you speak to a herbalist they will show you natural cures for many ailments. The other day I was reading about vitamin B!7 which can be found in certain grasses and is useful in combating cancer.

Why does that indicate ID?

[SweetPea]

Why does that indicate ID?

Design in the sense that some plants have a purpose, a use, i.e. properties for healing.

[Nearly Sane]

Design in the sense that some plants have a purpose, a use, i.e. properties for healing.

so your god designed poisonous plants because?

[SweetPea]

so your god designed poisonous plants because?

Good question..... I've no idea, Nearly. Guess there must be a reason.

[Shaker]

Good question..... I've no idea, Nearly. Guess there must be a reason.

Must there?

[Nearly Sane]

Good question..... I've no idea, Nearly. Guess there must be a reason.

And the rectal cancer that was mentioned earlier? This is why your position is illogical. There is no way you can falsify it because anything that is contradictory to your claim is ignored because it's a vacuous position. By the way do you worship your god?

[SweetPea]

And the rectal cancer that was mentioned earlier? This is why your position is illogical. There is no way you can falsify it because anything that is contradictory to your claim is ignored because it's a vacuous position. By the way do you worship your god?

Yes, it is difficult to understand and some do have explanations but I don't claim to have answers. No, I do not 'worship' God as such.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, it is difficult to understand and some do have explanations but I don't claim to have answers. No, I do not 'worship' God as such.

Given that your position is illogical as you have accepted here  your claim to see design is worthless.

[SweetPea]

Ok. But I still do see design.

Re DNA mentioned on another thread..... how is that not design?
 

[Maeght]

Design in the sense that some plants have a purpose, a use, i.e. properties for healing.

Why would an intelligent designer leave it to chance that someone might happen to eat a medicinal plant? You refer to b7. This doesn't exist in plants but may be present on plants due to bacteria which can synthesise it. Why wouldn't an intelligent designer design humans able to synthesise b7 themselves?

[Nearly Sane]

Ok. But I still do see design.

Re DNA mentioned on another thread..... how is that not design?

Yes, but since your position is illogical what you 'see' is worthless. You have to show design and since your take is effectively everything is designed then it's not an argument simply an assertion based on a position you have taken that cannot be falsified and is illogical.

[Maeght]

Ok. But I still do see design.

Re DNA mentioned on another thread..... how is that not design?

Do some research into the science sweetpea then you might avoid this type of personal incredulity post.

[Shaker]

Why would an intelligent designer leave it to chance that someone might happen to eat a medicinal plant? You refer to b7. This doesn't exist in plants but may be present on plants due to bacteria which can synthesise it. Why wouldn't an intelligent designer design humans able to synthesise b7 themselves?

"It has long been considered that all animals with the exceptions of guinea pigs, monkeys, and humans can produce their own vitamin C. Scientist have extensively studied the human genome and identified the defective gene for the synthesis of the active enzyme protein, L-gulonolactone oxidase [...]"

So humans have a defective gene which means that, unlike almost all other animals, we can't synthesize vitamin C.

Do tell us more about this intelligent design, Sweet Pea..

[Rhiannon]

"It has long been considered that all animals with the exceptions of guinea pigs, monkeys, and humans can produce their own vitamin C. Scientist have extensively studied the human genome and identified the defective gene for the synthesis of the active enzyme protein, L-gulonolactone oxidase [...]"

So humans have a defective gene which means that, unlike almost all other animals, we can't synthesize vitamin C.

Do tell us more about this intelligent design, Sweet Pea..

God made it that way in order to keep Tropicana in business.

[Sebastian Toe]

So humans have a defective gene which means that, unlike almost all other animals, we can't synthesize vitamin C.

More than likely a result of the "fall".
You are not really thinking this through, are you?