Author Topic: Barcelona  (Read 3315 times)

Nearly Sane

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Barcelona
« on: August 18, 2017, 06:10:59 PM »
A city I've been visiting regularly for over 30 years. Much loved, much enjoyed, a sunny version of my own city. Chippy, garrulous, gallus. I have no opinion at the moment nor since the attack of what we do, who to bomb or not bomb, what the next steps are. I will leave that for some time later and for when the blackness is less.

floo

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 06:27:06 PM »
My youngest daughter and family are in that part of the world at present, they are back home tomorrow thank goodness.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 06:31:17 PM »
My youngest daughter and family are in that part of the world at present, they are back home tomorrow thank goodness.
No tinc por

Rhiannon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 06:37:37 PM »
There's no one to bomb, these are daft young men who turn murderous, not a nation state.

What we do now is what we always do, what I do about the city I love and where I grew up - we grieve, we mourn, we love it and others even more, we live because that's what we owe.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 07:01:08 PM »
There's no one to bomb, these are daft young men who turn murderous, not a nation state.

What we do now is what we always do, what I do about the city I love and where I grew up - we grieve, we mourn, we love it and others even more, we live because that's what we owe.

That's what we do, all that we can just now. But my point was that after that there are always next steps and not bombing people is a choice as much as bombing people. I am not at a stage where either is conceivable, where action other than the grief can be considered. I am neither in a rush to judge or absolve and too often we think the later is somehow more right than the former, or at  least the people I  generally talk to do, the ones I more occasionally talk to think the former is more right.

Rhiannon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 07:15:43 PM »
Well I guess 'we' - I - don't get to decide either way. So I'll do what I do.

I'm sorry, NS. I thought of you when I heard. I can't remember if you'd talked about it before but I know it's your kind of place.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 07:22:15 PM »
Well I guess 'we' - I - don't get to decide either way. So I'll do what I do.

I'm sorry, NS. I thought of you when I heard. I can't remember if you'd talked about it before but I know it's your kind of place.
I will have posted of it. I tend to go once if not more a year. I love the feeling of it, it has its own history of oppression, it swaggers through life. I see that the 'suspect' is meant to be 17! As I replied elsewhere when I saw that, there is nothing dumber in the world than a 17 year old boy other than a 71 year old man dreaming of what 17 year old boys fo.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 07:25:03 PM by Nearly Sane »

Rhiannon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 07:55:02 PM »
Isn't it all dumb? I think maybe that's the worst of it, the utter, futile stupidity of it. A bit like dropping bombs on Iraqi market places.

ETA When Blair came to power I had this overwhelming sense that he was dangerous. I even wondered if he'd be assassinated, just like some wonder that about Trump.

Rhiannon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 08:01:13 PM »
Latest reports seem to indicate that the driver of the first van is among those killed in the second.

Rhiannon

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Gordon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 09:34:08 PM »
I was shocked to find that when I heard of this that I wasn't completely surprised: that this type of senseless or pointless or gratuitous (or any other adjective) killing seemingly for the sake of it, and with no apparent aim other than to shock, seems almost normal now is utterly obscene. Then this evening there is an incident in Finland and people have been killed, although the details of this aren't yet clear as regards terrorism.

It raises all sorts of anxieties: where is safe and who can be trusted, where the danger is that everywhere and everyone who can be thought of, rightly or wrongly, as representing the 'other' is viewed with suspicion - but without knowing who the enemy is then not only can they not be tackled the risk is that anxiety causes some to see everyone who looks like the 'other' in their eyes as a risk, especially where those doing this stuff turn out to be otherwise unremarkable and aren't known to security services.

I've no idea where we go from here - we were planning to take our grandchildren to France again next year but already today my elder daughter (their mother) is wondering if it is safe for them to leave the UK - I said to her there is no guarantee we'd be any safer holidaying in, say, Cornwall than we would in Royan - and just 5 years ago we'd have no such worries, and that is depressing.

 
 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 09:49:04 PM by Gordon »

Rhiannon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 10:09:21 PM »
Statistically the drive to Cornwall, or France, or the airport or ferry terminal, is more of a risk. Come to that, the drive from their house to yours is.

Balanced piece by Simon Jenkins here.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/18/barcelona-attack-europe-seventh-vehicle-what-done
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 10:15:11 PM by Rhiannon »

Rhiannon

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2017, 10:16:42 PM »

trippymonkey

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2017, 10:29:33 PM »
These terrorists are a bunch of pathetic ball-less cowards who can't fight real men & know they've already lost.  ::)
Classic scenario !!!

JP

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2017, 07:22:26 AM »
Statistically the drive to Cornwall, or France, or the airport or ferry terminal, is more of a risk. Come to that, the drive from their house to yours is.

Balanced piece by Simon Jenkins here.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/18/barcelona-attack-europe-seventh-vehicle-what-done

Quote
The white van has become the poor man’s guided missile
says Jenkins. So it is being used as a weapon to kill and maim by men who are poor. I wonder, poor in what?

He also goes on to say
Quote
For decades we have not separated pedestrians from speeding and drunken motorists, despite the resulting death toll
Now that's an idea. Perhaps we should have been building these barriers then no money need have been wasted on tackling the root cause of the speeding and drunken motorists. Just deal with the itch, just keep scratching, no need to tackle the cause.

We are hiding ourselves away, self immolating behind walls, barriers, security cordons and shields. Turn the lights out, light a candle, have a round of applause.

Leanne Wood, Brendan Cox and their ilk have recently attributed this to far right extremism. Why is that, why is it so easy to blame these actions on anything other than what the perpetrators use as their justification, their raison d'etre. Minority they may be but call it for what it is.
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

floo

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2017, 09:18:57 AM »

Aruntraveller

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2017, 09:30:59 AM »
???????????????????

It is a defiant message in Catalan.

'I am not afraid.'
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2017, 09:37:19 AM »
Apparently (I won't be able to watch it) there is a programme (drama/documentary?) about the mindset of IS recruits on Channel 4 tomorrow.
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

floo

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2017, 10:44:53 AM »
It is a defiant message in Catalan.

'I am not afraid.'

Right!

My daughter has just phoned to say they got back safely and have had a good time.  :)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 11:21:12 AM by Floo »

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2017, 04:16:21 PM »
Apparently (I won't be able to watch it) there is a programme (drama/documentary?) about the mindset of IS recruits on Channel 4 tomorrow.

The State

A four-part drama following the experiences of four British men and women who left their lives behind to join ISIS in 2015.

Channel 4

Sunday 20 August, 21.00 - continues Monday
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

trippymonkey

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2017, 04:41:53 PM »
Obviously left their BRAINS as well as their lives be - if they ever had one in the first place ?!!?!?

Robbie

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 12:04:32 AM »
Plural, trippy.

[/quote]
The State

A four-part drama following the experiences of four British men and women who left their lives behind to join ISIS in 2015.

Channel 4

Sunday 20 August, 21.00 - continues Monday

Looking forward to that. I've read several accounts from young people who did the same and regretted.  Should be a good drama, I've booked my seat in front of telly.

(Floo I'm glad your family are back safe from Barcelona.  Did think of going there in September for a week but the time we can both take as leave coincides with La Merce festival. Spectacular as that may be, I'd prefer to go at a quieter time so we've booked a week in Kefalonia instead.

Barcelona next year definitely.)
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floo

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2017, 04:01:38 PM »

Robbie

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2017, 07:29:12 PM »
Always bugs me a tiny bit when it is announced on the News that such'n'such was British, as if non-Brits don't matter. Tho' I understand that people in Britain will be anxious about their own loved ones travelling abroad.

However, Julian has the most beautiful, soul-wrenching face. Dear little boy, innocent of all political machinations.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

floo

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Re: Barcelona
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2017, 06:30:12 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41004603

It appears the police have shot dead the driver of the van.