Catalonia independence vote

[Anchorman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238

The UK wont recognise Catalonian independence.

I couldn't care less what Westminster recognises.

If a pweople decide to be free, who cares what a septic tank thinks?

[Nearly Sane]

Gambia apparently recognising Catalunya

[Nearly Sane]

Gambia apparently recognising Catalunya

Or maybe not.

[Aruntraveller]

I couldn't care less what Westminster recognises.

If a pweople decide to be free, who cares what a septic tank thinks?

Except that it is very unclear that a people have decided to be free - and therein lies the problem. The whole situation has been dealt with badly on both sides (Catalonian & Spanish administrations) and neither of them are serving the citizens particularly well at the moment.

[jeremyp]

I couldn't care less what Westminster recognises.

If a pweople decide to be free, who cares what a septic tank thinks?

What people has decided to be free?

In what way are the people of Catalonia more free now than they were this time last week?

[Harrowby Hall]

I can only concur with jeremyp's post.

What - exactly - are the people of Catalonia expecting to be free from?

And what are they expecting to be free to do?

[Rhiannon]

Agree with the last few posts. And if people want to be free from fear and uncertainty over their futures then they certainly don’t have that today.

[Shaker]

I can only concur with jeremyp's post.

What - exactly - are the people of Catalonia expecting to be free from?

Rule from Madrid, presumably.

And what are they expecting to be free to do?

Whatever the people of Catalonia decide and not what Madrid says, I expect.

[jeremyp]

Rule from Madrid, presumably.
Whatever the people of Catalonia decide and not what Madrid says, I expect.

The Spanish government is democratically elected. It makes bad decisions and good decisions like all governments.

Any government of Catalonia would be the same. Maybe there would be towns and villages in the region that don't like what they do. Should they be allowed to declare independence?

[Shaker]

The Spanish government is democratically elected. It makes bad decisions and good decisions like all governments.

Any government of Catalonia would be the same.

Exactly what I was going to say, so no argument against Catalonian independence.

Maybe there would be towns and villages in the region that don't like what they do. Should they be allowed to declare independence?

If a town or village thinks it can go it alone, sure, why not.

[SweetPea]

This was an interesting comment:

"Cheers to the new independent Catalonia. Spain should now change its name for Castilla. "Castilla", the true name of the Spanish state. It expresses what is really behind the Spanish pretention to have the imperial right to dominate the whole Iberian Peninsula... We the Portuguese people, have already experienced time and time again what that reckless imperialism means." ~ Silvero Rebelo

[Anchorman]

I can only concur with jeremyp's post.

What - exactly - are the people of Catalonia expecting to be free from?

And what are they expecting to be free to do?

Be a nation, able to determine their own future?

[jeremyp]

Be a nation, able to determine their own future?

They are already in a national able to determine their own future.

[Shaker]

They are already in a national able to determine their own future.

Presumably at least some Catalonians don't agree when it's Madrid doing the determining.

[jeremyp]

Presumably at least some Catalonians don't agree when it's Madrid doing the determining.

It's not Madrid doing the determining, it is the democratically elected government of Spain. Everybody in Spain had a chance to have a say in who the government are.

There will always be somebody who disagrees with what the government does. The logical conclusion of allowing them to go independent is a lot of little states each consisting of one person.

[Udayana]

...
If a town or village thinks it can go it alone, sure, why not.

Oh great, back to feudalism. Won't all those pretty young things sent to Barca to seduce the cameras have something to look forward to? Yea!

[Udayana]

Presumably at least some Catalonians don't agree when it's Madrid doing the determining.

Don't agree about what?

[Shaker]

Oh great, back to feudalism.

Feudalism was imposed from without, wasn't it?

[Shaker]

Don't agree about what?

That (in Jeremy's words) "They [Catalonians] are already in a nation able to determine their own future."

[jeremyp]

Feudalism was imposed from without, wasn't it?

From the point of view of a village in Catalonia, independence is being imposed (well attempted independence) from without.

[Shaker]

It's not Madrid doing the determining, it is the democratically elected government of Spain.

Yet you've already conceded (#133) that that would also be the case with an independent Catalonia.

[Shaker]

From the point of view of a village in Catalonia, independence is being imposed (well attempted independence) from without.

From within, surely.

[jeremyp]

Yet you've already conceded (#133) that that would also be the case with an independent Catalonia.

When you say "Madrid" instead of the "Spanish government", you are implying that the Catalonians had no part in determining the composition of that government. That is a falsehood.

[Udayana]

From the point of view of a village in Catalonia, independence is being imposed (well attempted independence) from without.

Well, mostly Barcelona, city socialists, are not for independence, the main drive for, is from the more right wing rural villages and towns.  They think they can pay less tax and stop immigration and so on.

[Shaker]

When you say "Madrid" instead of the "Spanish government", you are implying that the Catalonians had no part in determining the composition of that government. That is a falsehood.

Given that this is a thread about Catalonian independence you seem somehow to be missing the (fairly central) point that many Catalonians don't want a Spanish government but a Catalonian one.