Author Topic: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps  (Read 15775 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2017, 07:42:23 PM »
Vlad,

Wrong again. It was your claim that they are falsifiable - all you're being asked for is the method of falsifiability. 

?

As you seem determined to wreck what's little is left of yours with every post you attempt, I'll leave you to your private grief here.

Should you ever finally grasp the point of the leprechauns analogy though, by all means report back.
Oh I think we all know the point of the Leprechauns analogy all right.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2017, 08:06:29 PM »
Vlad,

Quote
Oh I think we all know the point of the Leprechauns analogy all right.

Then you've just condemned yourself with your own words, If you really do know the point of the analogy, why then have you never once engaged with that point and instead indulged in endless diversions and distractions about the different characteristic of each, the ridiculousness of one (but not in your mind apparently the other) etc?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 08:17:38 PM by bluehillside »
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2017, 08:19:43 PM »
Vlad,

Then you've just condemned yourself with your own words, If you really do know the point of the analogy, why then have you never once engaged with that point and instead indulged in endless diversions and distractions about the different characteristic of each?
I put forward a Global survey of rainbows with the object of observing the little fellers several
months ago on this forum. So far this project is in it's informal stages but non observation seems likely. Of course that leads to a second epistemiological difference. leprechauns are definitionally empirically observable whereas God isn't.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 08:26:44 PM »
Vlad,

Quote
I put forward a Global survey of rainbows with the object of observing the little fellers several
months ago on this forum. So far this project is in it's informal stages but non observation seems likely.

That's the black swan fallacy.

Try again.

Quote
Of course that leads to a second epistemiological difference.

You haven't found a first one yet

Quote
leprechauns are definitionally empirically observable whereas God isn't.

Says who? If you want to claim to have "experienced" a supernatural god, someone else can claim to have experienced a supernatural leprechaun.

Why should anyone else take either claim more seriously than the other?

Try again.

Again.
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God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 08:53:10 PM »
Vlad,

That's the black swan fallacy.

Try again.

You haven't found a first one yet

Says who? If you want to claim to have "experienced" a supernatural god, someone else can claim to have experienced a supernatural leprechaun.

Why should anyone else take either claim more seriously than the other?

Try again.

Again.
Back to life Back to the fallacies
Oh, so there are off world Leprechauns are there?
It's probabilistic anyway Hillside, Don't you agree. The Drake equation might be invoked I suppose and Leprechauns then swing into the epistemiological category of Extraterrestrial life which is a different category to the divine.

You cannot whitewash the epistemiological difference between the empirically observable and that which isn't. SO we are back where we started.

Leprechaunodammerung.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2017, 09:13:02 PM »
Vlad,

Quote
Back to life Back to the fallacies
Oh, so there are off world Leprechauns are there?
It's probabilistic anyway Hillside, Don't you agree. The Drake equation might be invoked I suppose and Leprechauns then swing into the epistemiological category of Extraterrestrial life which is a different category to the divine.

Ooof. Much as I enjoy the smell of cordite in the evening, as you'll be on the way now to A&E to have the hole in your foot patched up perhaps you'll have the time to work out on the way where you went off the rails there.

You posit a supernatural god able to flit in and out of the material at will; I posit supernatural leprechauns able at will to flit in and out of the material. Each of us knows these things because that's our "faith". The point you keep evading though is that when each of us attempt a validating argument that leads to either one equally, then it's probably a bad argument.

Why not finally at least try to engage with that?   

Quote
You cannot whitewash the epistemiological difference between the empirically observable and that which isn't. SO we are back where we started.

I don't need to "whitewash"anything because it's just another one of your lies. The epistemology of using the same argument to argue equally for either is your problem, however much you keep running away from it.

Incidentally, should we now take your claim that leprechauns are falsifiability to be yet another busted flush?

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Gordon

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2017, 09:17:23 PM »
SO we are back where we started.

Not really: your enthusiastic wumming never gets you anywhere worthwhile (argument-wise) in the first place.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:50:52 PM by Gordon »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2017, 09:28:33 PM »
Vlad,

Ooof. Much as I enjoy the smell of cordite in the evening, as you'll be on the way now to A&E to have the hole in your foot patched up perhaps you'll have the time to work out on the way where you went off the rails there.

You posit a supernatural god able to flit in and out of the material at will; I posit supernatural leprechauns able at will to flit in and out of the material. Each of us knows these things because that's our "faith". The point you keep evading though is that when each of us attempt a validating argument that leads to either one equally, then it's probably a bad argument.

Why not finally at least try to engage with that?   

I don't need to "whitewash"anything because it's just another one of your lies. The epistemology of using the same argument to argue equally for either is your problem, however much you keep running away from it.

Incidentally, should we now take your claim that leprechauns are falsifiability to be yet another busted flush?
Yes but observe what's going on here. If your two things in question look as though they might be epistemiological different. Change the definitions to make them the same category.......Lines five and six. Sorry to rumble you.

I am only rumbled on falsification if it is impossible to survey every rainbow in Ireland or even the world. All that seems to be lacking here is the will.

As far as extra terrestrial leprechauns are concerned. They are unlikely to be humanoid or irish.

Top of the morning to you.
 

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2017, 10:17:48 AM »
Vlad the Irrelevantist,

Quote
Yes but observe what's going on here. If your two things in question look as though they might be epistemiological different. Change the definitions to make them the same category.......Lines five and six. Sorry to rumble you.

I am only rumbled on falsification if it is impossible to survey every rainbow in Ireland or even the world. All that seems to be lacking here is the will.

As far as extra terrestrial leprechauns are concerned. They are unlikely to be humanoid or irish.

Top of the morning to you.

As you’ll have some more time today on your way to A&E again to get the hole in your other foot fixed (is that what you meant when you claimed to be "holistic" perhaps?), let’s have one final go at explaining to you where you keep crashing and burning here.

Fundamentally, you don’t know what the word “analogy” means. An analogy is a comparison between different objects in order to explain or clarify an argument. “It was a roller-coaster of a film” for example doesn’t mean that the cinema threw you around the place, but rather that your emotional response was analogous to the experience of a fairground ride.

Your mistake responding with the equivalent to “but one is a room with soft seats and a screen, the other is an outdoor ride so they’re not analogous at all”, thereby entirely missing the point.

You can talk all you like about whether leprechauns are natural, supernatural or anything else just as you can talk about the differences between a cinema and a fairground ride. In each case though the effort is utterly, entirely, unequivocally, categorically, irredeemably irrelevant.

What is relevant though – and this is the bit you never get around to dealing with – is that “God” and leprechauns are epistemically the same when the same argument produces either outcome with equal facility. What that argument is doesn’t matter at all: “You can’t disprove god/leprechauns, therefore god/leprechauns (the NPF); “Other people agree with me about god/leprechauns” (argumentum ad populum); “I don’t like the idea of no god/leprechauns (argumentum ad consequentiam); “I prayed to god/leprechauns for a promotion and got the job, therefore god/leprechauns” (post hoc ergo propter hoc); “I know god/leprechauns exist because it says so in a book, god/leprechauns wrote the book (circular reasoning) and, wearily, on and on they go.

You’ll notice that none of these bad arguments are bad because of any of the characteristics of their outcomes – you can claim anything, assert any behaviours, describe any features and characteristics about god/leprechauns that take your fancy – none of that though makes one jot of a smidgin of an iota of a snippet of a difference to the point of the argument which, yet again, is:

WHEN AN ARGUMENT FOR GOD WORKS JUST AS WELL FOR LEPRECHAUNS, THEN IT’S PROBABLY A BAD ARGUMENT.

Your choice here is either to continue your relentless dishonesty with a, “but god is X, whereas leprechauns are Y” irrelevance or – finally – you could at least try to engage with the argument that’s actually been made.

Up to you really.   
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 10:22:08 AM by bluehillside »
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2017, 10:41:13 AM »
Vlad the Irrelevantist,

As you’ll have some more time today on your way to A&E again to get the hole in your other foot fixed (is that what you meant when you claimed to be "holistic" perhaps?), let’s have one final go at explaining to you where you keep crashing and burning here.

Fundamentally, you don’t know what the word “analogy” means. An analogy is a comparison between different objects in order to explain or clarify an argument. “It was a roller-coaster of a film” for example doesn’t mean that the cinema threw you around the place, but rather that your emotional response was analogous to the experience of a fairground ride.

Your mistake responding with the equivalent to “but one is a room with soft seats and a screen, the other is an outdoor ride so they’re not analogous at all”, thereby entirely missing the point.

You can talk all you like about whether leprechauns are natural, supernatural or anything else just as you can talk about the differences between a cinema and a fairground ride. In each case though the effort is utterly, entirely, unequivocally, categorically, irredeemably irrelevant.

What is relevant though – and this is the bit you never get around to dealing with – is that “God” and leprechauns are epistemically the same when the same argument produces either outcome with equal facility. What that argument is doesn’t matter at all: “You can’t disprove god/leprechauns, therefore god/leprechauns (the NPF); “Other people agree with me about god/leprechauns” (argumentum ad populum); “I don’t like the idea of no god/leprechauns (argumentum ad consequentiam); “I prayed to god/leprechauns for a promotion and got the job, therefore god/leprechauns” (post hoc ergo propter hoc); “I know god/leprechauns exist because it says so in a book, god/leprechauns wrote the book (circular reasoning) and, wearily, on and on they go.

You’ll notice that none of these bad arguments are bad because of any of the characteristics of their outcomes – you can claim anything, assert any behaviours, describe any features and characteristics about god/leprechauns that take your fancy – none of that though makes one jot of a smidgin of an iota of a snippet of a difference to the point of the argument which, yet again, is:

WHEN AN ARGUMENT FOR GOD WORKS JUST AS WELL FOR LEPRECHAUNS, THEN IT’S PROBABLY A BAD ARGUMENT.

Your choice here is either to continue your relentless dishonesty with a, “but god is X, whereas leprechauns are Y” irrelevance or – finally – you could at least try to engage with the argument that’s actually been made.

Up to you really.
Hillside this may be an argument for Gods works for leprechauns for you.
But this is Leprechaunodammerung. All things God vs Leprechauns.

Why because there is the tricky issue of whether all arguments for God are the same for Leprechauns and that spins on CATEGORY.

I have already exposed your tactic of  ''change definitions''.

......And because this is all things Leprechaun we have to check whether argumentum ad ridiculum/horses laugh is being employed here.(it is)

Let us remind ourselves of Horses laugh which is the primary New Atheist strategy going right back to Bertrand Russell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule

In terms of falsifiability.

When scientists searched for Higgs boson they knew where they were looking and had a method by which they could observe or otherwise.

Because Leprechauns are small irish gentlemen associated with pots of Gold(atomic number. Whatever) and rainbows(scientific phenomena. Leprechauns come into the same category.

The same alas is not true for Christ who came as a man but once.

Categoric differences, mah friend, Categoric differences.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 10:55:40 AM by The Good, The Vlad and the Ugly »

SusanDoris

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2017, 10:50:56 AM »
bluehillside #33

Super ppost! :)
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 11:01:33 AM »
bluehillside #33

Super ppost! :)
Sis
You are just making yourself party, as Trentvoyager, has to the fallacy of appeal to ridicule.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2017, 11:05:30 AM »
Vlad,

Then you've just condemned yourself with your own words, If you really do know the point of the analogy, why then have you never once engaged with that point
I have frequently told you about your use of appeal to ridicule in this matter.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2017, 11:07:49 AM »
Vlad the Irrelevantist,

As you’ll have some more time today on your way to A&E again to get the hole in your other foot fixed (is that what you meant when you claimed to be "holistic" perhaps?), let’s have one final go at explaining to you where you keep crashing and burning here.

Fundamentally, you don’t know what the word “analogy” means. An analogy is a comparison between different objects in order to explain or clarify an argument. “It was a roller-coaster of a film” for example doesn’t mean that the cinema threw you around the place, but rather that your emotional response was analogous to the experience of a fairground ride.

Your mistake responding with the equivalent to “but one is a room with soft seats and a screen, the other is an outdoor ride so they’re not analogous at all”, thereby entirely missing the point.

You can talk all you like about whether leprechauns are natural, supernatural or anything else just as you can talk about the differences between a cinema and a fairground ride. In each case though the effort is utterly, entirely, unequivocally, categorically, irredeemably irrelevant.

What is relevant though – and this is the bit you never get around to dealing with – is that “God” and leprechauns are epistemically the same when the same argument produces either outcome with equal facility. What that argument is doesn’t matter at all: “You can’t disprove god/leprechauns, therefore god/leprechauns (the NPF); “Other people agree with me about god/leprechauns” (argumentum ad populum); “I don’t like the idea of no god/leprechauns (argumentum ad consequentiam); “I prayed to god/leprechauns for a promotion and got the job, therefore god/leprechauns” (post hoc ergo propter hoc); “I know god/leprechauns exist because it says so in a book, god/leprechauns wrote the book (circular reasoning) and, wearily, on and on they go.

You’ll notice that none of these bad arguments are bad because of any of the characteristics of their outcomes – you can claim anything, assert any behaviours, describe any features and characteristics about god/leprechauns that take your fancy – none of that though makes one jot of a smidgin of an iota of a snippet of a difference to the point of the argument which, yet again, is:

WHEN AN ARGUMENT FOR GOD WORKS JUST AS WELL FOR LEPRECHAUNS, THEN IT’S PROBABLY A BAD ARGUMENT.

Your choice here is either to continue your relentless dishonesty with a, “but god is X, whereas leprechauns are Y” irrelevance or – finally – you could at least try to engage with the argument that’s actually been made.

Up to you really.
Oh dear....you had to put it onto analogies didn't you.

One phrase

Leprechauns and Multiverse.

BeRational

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2017, 11:08:40 AM »
Myth

It means story, perhaps based on some event, but not actually true.

Robin Hood.
King Arthur.
Leprechauns.
Jesus.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2017, 11:11:35 AM »
And another, Hillside..........

Leprechauns and science being able to observe before a moment of creation.

And another

Leprechauns and science being able to stand outside of time and space to analyse an eternal universe.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2017, 11:25:33 AM »
Vlad the Irrelevantist,

Quote
Hillside this may be an argument for Gods works for leprechauns for you.
But this is Leprechaunodammerung. All things God vs Leprechauns.

Why because there is the tricky issue of whether all arguments for God are the same for Leprechauns and that spins on CATEGORY.

I have already exposed your tactic of  ''change definitions''.

......And because this is all things Leprechaun we have to check whether argumentum ad ridiculum/horses laugh is being employed here.(it is)

Let us remind ourselves of Horses laugh which is the primary New Atheist strategy going right back to Bertrand Russell.

You couldn’t do it could you. Just for once, after all that lying, even now you couldn’t be honest even one time.

Not once.

Definitions, categories, ridicule or any other sand you want to throw in the face of the argument have absolutely no relevance whatever to the force of that argument. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.

You can have any definition, any category, any amount of inferred ridicule you like. Really, knock yourself out – anything at all. None of those things though somehow reach back into a false argument that leads to them somehow to make it into a good one. A false argument is a false argument is a false argument whether it happens to lead to a god, to leprechauns, or to anything else.

Until and unless you finally stop ignoring or lying about that there’s nothing more to say – it’s a dialogue with the deaf or the mendacious. Take your pick.     

Quote
In terms of falsifiability.

When scientists searched for Higgs boson they knew where they were looking and had a method by which they could observe or otherwise.

Because Leprechauns are small irish gentlemen associated with pots of Gold(atomic number. Whatever) and rainbows(scientific phenomena. Leprechauns come into the same category.

The same alas is not true for Christ who came as a man but once.

Another fuck up. If the people at CERN hadn’t found the Higgs-Boson, that wouldn’t have falsified the conjecture “Higgs-Boson”. Your claim on the other hand was that you could falsify leprechauns – something not finding them wouldn’t do.

Quote
Categoric differences, mah friend, Categoric differences.

It’s “category” and you just fell into a category error, while previously screwing up the same charge against me because the categories “god” and leprechauns are irrelevant to the point that an argument that leads equally to either is probably a bad argument.

I think we’re done here. If ever you feel like unscrambling your thinking and trying again though, by all means give it a go. 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 11:34:57 AM by bluehillside »
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2017, 11:27:44 AM »
Vlad the Irrelevantist,

Quote
You are just making yourself party, as Trentvoyager, has to the fallacy of appeal to ridicule.

Wrong again. However ridiculous you happen to find one of the two analogous conjectures to be has no relevance at all to the force of the analogy.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2017, 11:28:30 AM »
Susan,

Quote
Super ppost! :)

Thank you.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

BeRational

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2017, 11:29:43 AM »
Susan,

Thank you.

I don't know how you have the patience!
I see gullible people, everywhere!

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2017, 11:31:35 AM »
Vlad the Irrelvantist,

Quote
I have frequently told you about your use of appeal to ridicule in this matter.

And I have just as frequently told you why it's irrelevant. 
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God

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2017, 11:34:00 AM »
BR,

Quote
I don't know how you have the patience!

I haven't. If he keeps evading and lying I have nothing more to say to him - the argument rests. If he finally want to attempt at least to engage with it though, we'll see what he has to say.

Probably not a good idea to hold your breath though.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2017, 11:58:06 AM »
Vlad the Irrelvantist,

And I have just as frequently told you why it's irrelevant.
Stop dodging the phrase that flags up your appeal to ridicule Hillside.......

Leprechauns vs Multiverse.

Oh....Do you have a dilemma here, having told all and sundry that differences are irrelevant?

Leprechauns and Dark Matter.
leprechauns and Dark energy.
Leprechauns and The universe appearing from Nothing.
Leprechauns and an eternal universe.
leprechauns and the Aristotelian God.
Leprechauns and string theory.
leprechauns and what Sean Carroll does for a living.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2017, 11:59:17 AM »
You are just making yourself party, as Trentvoyager, has to the fallacy of appeal to ridicule.

In the face of overwhelming stupidity sometimes ridicule is all one has left.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2017, 12:03:28 PM »
In the face of overwhelming stupidity sometimes ridicule is all one has left.
But in your case you have start with ridicule.